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Dale Broadbent Nov 04, 2005, 08:08am EST Report Abuse
That was informative and well-written, Sander! My question is now, why introduce a new socket that has one more pin than the 939 socket (AMD)? What's the point? It just limits the upgradeability of current processors... What are they going to do with that one extra pin on their 940 socket?


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mothow Nov 04, 2005, 08:14am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: great article!
I should have read the article frist.

ASRock Z97 Extreme 4 / i7 4790K / Corsair H80i / 4x4GB Crucial Ballistix Smart Tracer DDR3 1600 / 1TB Western Digital Caviar Black / 240GB Mushkin Chronos Deluxe SSD / 2x Evga GTX 670 FTW 2GB in SLI / Sound Blaster Recon3D Fatal1ty / Corsair HX1000w
Dublin_Gunner Nov 04, 2005, 08:15am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: great article!
Dale, its a copmpletely redesigned socket. just cause it says 940 pins, does not mean they decided to stick an extra pin there for something. The layouts and footprint (as per the article and other sources) will be completely different. They obviously neede an extra pin out for something.

Actually, they got rid of 1 pin going to s939 anyway (from 940), but its not cmpatible with s940 anyway

Lancool PC K62
Phenom II x3 @ 3.5Ghz
4GB DDR2-800
ASUS GTX570 DirectCU II
Dale Broadbent Nov 04, 2005, 08:36am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: great article!
"Dale, its a copmpletely redesigned socket. just cause it says 940 pins, does not mean they decided to stick an extra pin there for something. The layouts and footprint (as per the article and other sources) will be completely different. They obviously neede an extra pin out for something.

Actually, they got rid of 1 pin going to s939 anyway (from 940), but its not cmpatible with s940 anyway"

Haha! Thanks for clarifying :). I *just* got a 939 socket MB/processor - upgrading from my 754 Athlon64 - because I was disgusted with how fast AMD abandoned the 754 and wanted to be able to upgrade later. So that kind of prompted my question about their "new" 940 socket.

Your post was funny. I had pictures of a 939 socket with one pin sticking out the side while reading it :D.

Dublin_Gunner Nov 04, 2005, 09:12am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: great article!
No bother!! A lot of peole have had the same queries as you, like 'I just got my 939, and now they're using a new one!!! Grrrrrr'

But its not the case, s939 will be around for quite a while yet. The main reason for the move to M2 is to facilitate DDR2, whereas the main reason for moving to s939 was Dual Channel ram (I think).

Hmmm.....They upgrade their sockets merely to accomodate ram eh............

I built my system in May, and intend on keeping it for at least a year!! (well, adding upgrades)

Lancool PC K62
Phenom II x3 @ 3.5Ghz
4GB DDR2-800
ASUS GTX570 DirectCU II
zkillz Nov 04, 2005, 11:15am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: great article!
%^@# i literally bought a socket 754 mobo/cpu yestersay. figures i would read this article the day after. i guess it doesnt matter cause i am on socket A right now and im on a tight budget so the 754 was the best choice for me but it is kinda sad that theyre gonna phase out 754 and 939. oh well

maybe by the time m2 comes out there'll be a game demanding enough for that kind of technology. them software guys need to get their act together...

oh and AMD is teh roxxor. forget Intel... those current LGA775's run so hot...

_________________________________
Sempron 64 2500+ stock
ASUS K8N Socket 754
2x512 Hundai DDR333
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SAVE THE INTERNET!!(savetheinternet.com)
hippy1001 Nov 04, 2005, 12:15pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: great article!
Yeah it was a good article, it is a shame that AMD are phasing out skt 754's so quickly, i did get told about that a while ago when i was building my rig, so i got a 939 to make sure it was a little future proof.
Hopefully AMD will make thier turion equivalent a bit more power orientated as atm most laptops ive seen only have a battery life of abut 3hrs compared to pentium centrino's 4+hrs. BUT the 64bit capabilities of it make up for that a little.

its mind boggling thinking about processor design. so i wont!

Mike L. Nov 04, 2005, 12:19pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: great article!
Very good article I have to say..looks like we have alot to expect from Intel and AMD. But as usual, will those plans stay, or will the just scrap them at the last second and come out with something totally different not leaving much time for them to test and compare making it utterly useless costing them millions.. who knows? I don't.. As for Zealous, man I feel sorry for you, but you made me laugh pretty hard when I read you post, poor guy. Secondly I just wanted to ask what is the difference with the Smithfield processor compared to the 'Cedar Mill'? Sander said that the the processors will be physically separated unlike the Smithfield.

___________________________________________
I am what you would call depressingly comfortable...
David Nov 04, 2005, 02:43pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: great article!
Oh deary me....

AMD's super duper onboard memory controller aint looking too good anymore is it :D

A whole new socket *just* to offer support for DDR2.....

:)

David.


_________________

Have a Nice Day :)
CrAsHnBuRnXp Nov 04, 2005, 03:10pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: great article!
"%^@# i literally bought a socket 754 mobo/cpu yestersay. figures i would read this article the day after. i guess it doesnt matter cause i am on socket A right now and im on a tight budget so the 754 was the best choice for me but it is kinda sad that theyre gonna phase out 754 and 939. oh well"

Socket A is fadin out also. And im on Socket A. :(

and its about damn time AMD hits a processor with at least 3.0Ghz. what took them so long?

Jason Thompson Nov 05, 2005, 10:45am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: great article!
Man, this ticks me off in some ways. I'm in the process of building an new rig, and AMD pulls this out of their hat!? grrr I'm sure there were press releases or guesses about this months ago, I just didn't pay attention oh well. I suppose DDR2 or 3 will be in the next system I build in roughly 3-4 years.

As for the socket 754...it was widely known before 939 even came out that 754 was going to be phased out. I've always had in my mind since last dec. that I was building a 939 system. Prices would fall by the next summer (this past one) and they did. However I did not have the money for parts until recently. At any rate 754 was still a good choice for people on a budget. Now 939's are cheap enough for even the budget builder.

I'm just irritated because this change seems minor to me. If they were going to do this they might as well have just waited until they could do this with the original 64's. To me it is a waste of money. Most everyone who has upgraded has done so to the 64 939 spec. We're not all about to go out and buy a *new* mobo and processor just because it comes out. Sure the enthusiasts *may*, but who knows maybe they'll see its a waste and not do it. An increase of performance from 2-8 percent in my book is not worth the expense; my numbers may be off, but I'm pretty sure the incrase won't go above 20% if it even possible.

Processors are *not* the most expensive part in a PC, the video card is...assuming one is a gamer or enthusiast. Which if your own this mailing list or forum I think would be safe to assume.

But I give props to AMD, they've got to stay ahead of the game(Intel) or at least on par. It sounds like Intel is finally catching up in the performance department...AMD needs to get another leap on them to stay ahead.

CrAsHnBuRnXp Nov 05, 2005, 03:40pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: great article!
DDR2 is not that much faster than DDR. so i doubt ill be getting it unless i have to.

G. G. Nov 05, 2005, 09:24pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: great article!
Sander,

Thank you for the article. Very open minded for both side of the camp and very informative on what both sides are planning release starting next year. And I appreciated very much that there were not a single ounce of bias in your article. Very professional. Again thank you.


By the way...... That plant in Chandler AZ for Intel.... my brother works there and 4 months ago he had told me about the revamp of the plant for 65nm mass production and the release in 2nd quarter 06. He works on the machines that produces them cores. So it is cool to hear it from Sander.

Hey guys, with AMD going to the socket M...... I believe the reasoning for this has to do with the support for DDR2...... BUT mainly to phase out all the other socket types and to go with just one socket ( ie socket M) for all their proccessor line for cost savings in manufacturing, at least that is what I have read.


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Dublin_Gunner Nov 06, 2005, 10:29am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: great article!
Well that would make sense. But they could very well have done the same thing with s939. I really hope they continue to release new products on s939, because it still has a lot to offer.

The latest roadmap map I've seen:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2587

Has no mention of s939, but I hope that really only refers to M2 and does not show the whole picture

Lancool PC K62
Phenom II x3 @ 3.5Ghz
4GB DDR2-800
ASUS GTX570 DirectCU II
G. G. Nov 06, 2005, 10:52am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: great article!
that AMD roadmap sure does show alot of M2 sockets. They probably couldnt have done it with S939 because it supported DDR1 and since they have decided to go to DDR2 that may have required a new layout of the pins for the DDR2 memory controller. And since they have to go to a newer layout... guess they have also decided to make all future product lines use this newer socket to cut cost in supporting a potential of 4 socket types (M2, 754, 939, 940 or any other that I may have missed). This would be good for AMD but sucks for the users that have all other socket other than the newer one and none are compatible to each other. Motherboard upgrade time. Kinda like an Intel move here.

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DarK_SlayeR Nov 06, 2005, 11:08am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: great article!
DDR teamed up with an onboard memory controler is an unbeatible combo. DDR2 (low latency) and an onboardmemory controler will be serious overkill.
Maybe I'll wait and upgrade when DDR2 and M2 mate. My rig is good for another year anyway.

-------------------
Intel Core 2 Duo e8400 @ stock
Asus P5Q Pro P45
2GB x 2 Kingston HyperX DDR2 1066
eVGA GTX 550 Ti 1024mb Superclocked
Windows Vista Home Premium x64
Gerritt Nov 06, 2005, 08:45pm EST Report Abuse
>> Different Sockets, Pin redistribution
Sigh,
I'd rather buy a motherboard that supported Socket 2000 than have to upgrade the entire bloody thing every year or so just to get the latest and greatest performance.
Come out with a 2000 pin standard with most of the pins open or shunted to ground, and give me the capability of a system upgrade without having to break the bank every time.

Just my 2 cents.....
BTW for you "retentive" types out there....2000 was a random number, and is not indicative of what I want for pin separation or socket, but a 1000 pin or 1024 pin variable would be nice.....they could repackage their present offerings, and provide a firmware flash upgrade to support the new capabilities.

Gerritt

Ad Astra Per Aspera
(A rough road leads to the Stars)
We all know what we know, and everyone else knows we are wrong.
System Specifications in BIO
Yousuf Khan Nov 06, 2005, 11:56pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: great article!
People maybe this little list will help you understand what the differences are.

Socket 754: DDR1, single-channel
Socket 939: DDR1, dual-channel
Socket M2 (940-pin): DDR2, dual-channel

The above sockets are just for the desktop and laptop segment. The Socket 939 will be around for a long time, as Semprons will migrate up from Socket 745. Athlon 64 will migrate up from Socket 939 to M2.

They will also offer a Socket S1 for ultralight laptops, which is like something around 640 pins. Socket S1 is going to be for ultra-low power mobile processors only, which I would assume means Turions and Mobile-Semprons. The smaller package is probably necessary for thin'n'light space constraints.

The current server and workstation chips, the Opterons, use another kind of Socket 940, future Opterons will use Socket F, which is 1207-pin. The fact that the desktop Socket M2 has the exact same number of pins as the server Socket 940 is just a coincidence. The server Socket 940 is used for registered dual-channel DDR1; the desktop Socket M2 is used for non-registered dual-channel DDR2.

Socket 940: registered DDR1, dual-channel
Socket F (1207-pin): registered DDR2, dual-channel

It's a huge jump up from 940-pin to 1207-pin for the Opterons. And it can't only be about going from DDR1 to DDR2, there is some speculation that AMD might add an additional Hypertransport link to it. Another speculation has it that AMD might add quad-channel memory and/or mirrored dual-channel memory.

Glen Johnson Nov 07, 2005, 12:39am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: great article!
I had heard also that as well as support for DDR2 that there could be some virtualization capabilities added, (i.e. running more than one OS simultaneously on two seperate virtuals what ever the hell that is).

Please I know I sound crazy but has any one else heard anything about that besides what is "established" facts about the new cores. Maybe that is what the Extra pin (939 to 940) is for!

:)

Nice article good discussion.

Yousuf Khan Nov 07, 2005, 10:06am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: great article!
I had heard also that as well as support for DDR2 that there could be some virtualization capabilities added, (i.e. running more than one OS simultaneously on two seperate virtuals what ever the hell that is).


Yes, that's likely to come in 2006, sometime. It's called Pacifica on AMD processors and VT on Intel procs.

However, I don't think that's something that requires special pins on the outside of the processor. Especially on AMD processors, where the memory controller is inside the processor, therefore there is no additional control circuitry needed on the outside.

Patrick Eberhart Nov 13, 2005, 12:27pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: great article!
Hey don't fret guys this trend NEVER change! You just have to learn to live with it and look for advantages...

A STABLE AND RELIABLE SYSTEM IS BY FAR PREFERRABLE TO BELLS AND WHISLES AND HIGH SPEED.

I began my personal computer career with one of the first Trash 80's available in Radio Shack stores. What I've learned over the years is that you have to base upgrades on stuff you really need and that really work rather than just to keep up with the guy next door. The TRS-80 Expansion Interface for instance cost as much as the keyboard/computer itself but added all sorts of capability like memory expansion and a hard drive interface (5 meg hard drive was a BIG deal back then!). What was needed MORE than memory expansion was a less sensitive power supply/interface since even a light switch in a house accross town could cause the Trash-80 to reset. Although the agony of a system reset STILL happens today even with the most expensive power supply, motherboard, CPU, etc. at least it is not as often. Both my AMD and my Intel based systems crash for no reason at all AND without warning every now and then. I have to say though that my AMD based systems (en the PCChips) is a bit kinder.

If buying another computer only to get another socket pin or DDR2 240 pins (versus DDR 184 pins) will not effect your actual computing needs but only your bragging rights then both Intel and AMD will continue to get away with charging outrageous prices for ANYTHING they do for that reason.

(Please reply to pce3@ij.net. The email address I used to register with is no longer active and I can't figure out how to update it to the new one!)


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