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Reason Aug 05, 2006, 01:15am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
Josh, you wouldn't accept fan boyism regarding vid cards or processors or such. So I'm disappointed when you don't consider the rebuttals to your references. To wit, re: Dr. Barnes:

1. The earth's magnetic field is known to have varied in intensity (Gee et al. 2000) and reversed in polarity numerous times in the earth's history. This is entirely consistent with conventional models (Glatzmaier and Roberts 1995) and geophysical evidence (Song and Richards 1996) of the earth's interior. Measurements of magnetic field field direction and intensity show little or no change between 1590 and 1840; the variation in the magnetic field is relatively recent, probably indicating that the field's polarity is reversing again (Gubbins et al. 2006).

2. Empirical measurement of the earth's magnetic field does not show exponential decay. Yes, an exponential curve can be fit to historical measurements, but an exponential curve can be fit to any set of points. A straight line fits better.

3. T. G. Barnes (1973) relied on an obsolete model of the earth's interior. He viewed it as a spherical conductor (the earth's core) undergoing simple decay of an electrical current. However, the evidence supports Elsasser's dynamo model, in which the magnetic field is caused by a dynamo, with most of the "current" caused by convection. Barnes cited Cowling to try to discredit Elsasser, but Cowling's theorem is consistent with the dynamo earth.

4. Barnes measures only the dipole component of the total magnetic field, but the dipole field is not a measure of total field strength. The dipole field can vary as the total magnetic field strength remains unchanged.

Source: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CD/CD701.html

And,
It was founded for freedom of religion. Not freedom from religion.

The Puritans did not come here to allow all faiths and creeds equality. They came here because England considered Puritanism too intolerant. Also, I have to say, the second part of that statement is, while understandable in light of Michael Newdow and other a**holes, unsupported by our Constitution. It's also disingenuous, as it implies that any religion would be acceptable, and that only non-religion would be wrong in light of our nation's start. Witness the scares that Crowley and LaVey have given the mainstream when they suggested alternatives to the big three monotheisms (Xianity, Judaism, Islam).

By all means, keep the faith. But if one fails to use one's mind, one has not met the full potential intended by one's creator.

_________________
Ultima Ratio Regum
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A_Pickle Aug 05, 2006, 01:28am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
The sun would have burned it up because it was larger and hotter when it was younger. I personally believe the earth is about 10,000 years old.


Oh, come on. This one isn't even argued about anymore -- there's isn't a chance in hell the Earth is 10,000 years old. Potassium-argon dating methods can't be used for such miniscule ages, because their half-lifes are on the order of 200,000 years of age. Then there's radiocarbon dating, which can measure things up to about 10,000 years of age. If there's any disputes about the validity or accuracy of radiocarbon dating (there really isn't), then one may turn to accelerator mass spectrometry dating which, rather than a single microscopic sample, can make a date out of a large, local gathering of carbon-14.

That, by the way, is based on science from the 20th century...

As I said, this has never been observed, it was only made up because of the problem with evolution that the lessening magnetic field brought forth.


Oh, so we're refuting things on the basis that they haven't been observed now? Ah, wish you'd have said so sooner. Well, since the entire Biblical tale hasn't been observed... uh... I guess that settles it. Wish you'd have said so sooner, would've saved a lot of lives, time, bloodshed... the works. :)

Here is the info on the Noah's Ark 'find'. http://www.remnantofgod.org/creation.htm


You mean those completely inconclusive and blurry pictures of what is likely not a fictional boat which wasn't constructed in order to preserve two of every species on the planet due to a prophetic warning regarding an imminent, planet-wide flood requiring a volume of water that doesn't exist on the planet? Those pictures?

Seriously. Noah's Ark? You'd think if they were that certain it was the Ark... they'd take better... erm... more convincing pictures of it, no? That site's funny. I particularly enjoyed their rant about Polonium 214. :D

First of all, it is not asked for.


So, the baskets slowly filling with money and passing from pew to pew aren't laced with a certain underlying question?

The reason it's considered 'defiant' is because it's going against the reason our nation was founded. It was founded for freedom of religion. Not freedom from religion.


I interpret this as you saying that everyone should have a religion of some sort, but that the choice of having no religion is unconstitutional?

True, that's how some feel. But as a Lutheran, I feel that any true Christian will go to heaven, not just Lutherans.


No room for honest-to-goodness, kind-hearted Atheists, though?

Aug 05, 2006, 01:36am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
So Noah fit 2 of every animal in existence today on a homemade boat, and dinosaurs are... a practical joke?

Michael A. Aug 05, 2006, 03:10am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)

Michael A.
Website: http://itnode.net
Chris McNally Aug 05, 2006, 06:13am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
I have to say that I find nothing frightening in the number of athiests we have here (to quote the OP) but what I do find frightening are people who unquestionably believe the tenants of a two-thousand year old book without any reference at all to any of the the scientific discoveries made in the intervening time, many of which explain the natural occurences previously attributed to acts of god.

Regards,

Chris McNally

Moderator - Hardware Analysis
E-mail: chris@hardwareanalysis.com
Bungle Aug 05, 2006, 06:46am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
ok for any of you noah's ark believers out there please provide either a phisically possible explanation or a supernatural one that has physical evidence for it.

1. Show how an entirely wooden boat can be made that is in excess of 350 feet long that is sea worthy.

2. Explain without using evoloution and in the absence of any creation post noah (since none is mentioned in the bible) how it is possible that:

a. Noah his wife and his 3 sons and their wives (8 people in all) could have survived while being host to all of the multiple thousands of human specific diseases and all the different strains there of; viral, bacterial, and genetic.

b. that we have specialized creatures that live in remote areas of the world that are thousands of miles away from modern turkey (the rough geographical location of noah's ark's landing) that are found in only one location on earth and are completely incapible of making the trip under their own power. I.E. desert cave fish, insects, plants

c. why are there extremely fragile aquatic environments that exist today that would not have survived being buried under a couple hundred feet of silt at a depth of 20,000 feet? Are you suggesting that noah had state of the art salt/freshwater aquariums on the ark? How would he/his family power such devices?

~~~~~
The waters rose and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the water. They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet. Gen 7:18 - 20 NIV
~~~~~

3. Where did the water go? some of the most conservative measurements of the growth rate of the himilays put it at 6.1cm vertically per year (2.4 in) run the clock back 6000 years (again a very conservative estimate the geneologies in the bible place it at roughly 4300 years ago) and mt everest would have been 27835 ft tall (29035 - (2.4 x 6000 / 12) = 27835). or roughly 5.25 miles above sea level... if you take the volume of the ocean (292131000 cu. miles) The volume of a sphere is 4/3 pi * r^3 putting the volume of the earth at 4/3 * 3.141(6 378.1^3 Km) = 1086627383723.7 m^3 subtract this from the volume of the earth with 5.25 extra miles
water on top of it (4/3 * 3.141(6386.4^3 Km)) - (4/3 * 3.141(6 378.1^3 Km)) = 4247698717.186272 m^3 diffence = 1019077115.7 cu miles / 292131000 = 3.488... so you would need roughly 3.488 times the current volume of the ocean to reach the top of mount everest 6000 years ago under very conservative estimates.... there isn't that much water on the planet! where did it go? where is the evidence for this?

BTW it it were going to rain for 40 days to reach that level you would need it to be raining constantly at a rate in excess of 230 inches per hour continuously on every square inch of the globe!!! (3.488 x 5280 x 12 / 40 / 24 = 230.23) that would make a monsoon look like a drizzle!!! (thats using my conservative estimate remember in reality it would be higher)

4. How would specialized species survive? I.E. creatures that only live on a certain type of food.. things like koala bears which only eat eucalyptus leaves. how do you solve the logisitcal problems of storing this food in the absensce of refrigeration?

5. why is the fossil record layered? why is it that we do not see modern humans along side dinosaurs? why is it that the deeper you dig the older the fossil? shouldn't they all be roughly the same age?

Ill let you guys tackle that for awhile before I ask more questions...




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Matt BillyBob Aug 05, 2006, 08:42am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
well i can answer questions 2a to an exent :)

But mate, you have to understand that at some level, evolution DOES occur and it explains alot of things. Obviously Christians are keen to disregard the idea of evolution, but I think in general its more a refusal of the evolution of humanity to what it is today. The fact is that evolutions does occur, at least on the DNA and bacterial level, so its a touch unfair to expect an answer that doesnt involve some kind of evolution. Theres no verse in the bible that says evolution is impossible.

alot of genetic disorders are quite prevalent in modern people without actually effecting the host. However, if a carrier of any given genetic disorder ( a host who doesnt have the effects of the disruptive gene) happens to have a child with another carrier, or even worse, a person who actually suffers the condition, it becomes likely that disruptive gene will appear and cause trouble for the child (read up on conditions like colourblindness if you wish). Furthermore, given the lack of any decent time scale that i'm aware of, there are potentially tens of thousands of years for genetic conditions to develop (mutation in the genetic sequence is actually more common than people are aware, however most mutations are corrected rather quickly) so its not necessarily correct to say that the 8 people were host to thousands of genetic diseases.

A similar situation occurs with viral and bacterial infections, in the sense that bacteria and viruses constantly evolve (like avain flu ect). Thus again, given the uncertain time scale, you cant say with 100% certainty that the millions of viral and bacterial infections that exist today had to have existed in noah's time. Furthermore, given that we know viruses can cross the species barrier (albeit not easily and not without a decent amount of time in general cases) its possible that the animals aboard noahs ark were carrying at least a portion of the viral and bacterial infections that we have today. Its important to note that viruses, unlike larger creatures, dont need hundreds of thousands of years to undergo a notable adaption.

i understand the answers t arent exactly fool-proof and frankly, reading over it i could understand that people may think this explanation is for lack of a better word...hazy. But to the best of my knowledge, most of what I have said is true or at least the scientific reasoning is. I'm not saying this is definitely what happened, but its a theory ;)

On a side note, how can you reason that it didnt happen because it wasnt mentioned in the bible? How exactly is it relevant or necessary to explain what happened after the initial creation? Expecting evidence is fair enough, but expecting answers to every question you have is frankly, retarded. The bible doesnt hypothesise why people cant find matching socks at 5 in the morning, but that isnt used as evidence against its creditability.

Bungle Aug 05, 2006, 03:49pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
~~~~~
On a side note, how can you reason that it didnt happen because it wasnt mentioned in the bible? How exactly is it relevant or necessary to explain what happened after the initial creation? Expecting evidence is fair enough, but expecting answers to every question you have is frankly, retarded. The bible doesnt hypothesise why people cant find matching socks at 5 in the morning, but that isnt used as evidence against its creditability.
~~~~~

i can assume it could have happened and not been mentioned if its a minor event like people not always finding matching socks, but when its a huge thing that effects the entire globe... you would think that a book like the bible that claims to have the answers to the big questions would make mention of these things. To me saying that "it happened it just wasn't mentioned in the bible" is in a way a copout... the fact is that the bible even if you take into account only the things it does mention is inconsistent with the evidence.

How is it retarted for me to expect answers to my questions? You technically didn't have to answer the one you did, im not forcing anyone to answer anything. Although i must say I appreciate your explanation, and while alot of christians are starting to accept that evoloution is happening, many still do not.

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Bitmap Aug 05, 2006, 05:46pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
I agree with Mr. McNally. The fact that so many things once attributed to God have been analyzed and experimented upon to the point where we have scientific evidence that shows something couldn't be an act of God can easily make one wonder if a god of any sort exists.

Also, I'm not too familiar with the specifics of the Noah's Ark story, but how could one man, or if his wife helped him, two people build a boat so large by themself/themselves? It doesn't make any sense. And even so, did Noah hav such knowledge to build a bouyant vessal that would support the weight of all of those animals.

One more, if Noah brought with him 2 of every animal on the planet, I would think the Ark would need to be much much larger than the Bible says, according to Mr. Adames-Hill's measurements.

________
"None of you understand. I'm not locked up in here with you. YOU'RE locked up in here with ME." - Walter Kovacs, A.K.A. Rorschach.
A_Pickle Aug 05, 2006, 06:38pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
And once again, I'd like to point out that a modern aircraft carrier would likely be unable to comfortably house two of every species living on Earth. Hell, let's be conservative and say that they were only worried about land species. Given that the advanced technologies and materials necessary in the construction of an aircraft carrier were not present at the time, they would have built it out of the best materials they could feasibly construct such a vessel out of -- namely, wood.

There is a trend, however, regarding floods and belief systems. Many, many belief systems speak of a flood, and there's a very plausible explanation for it.

Before the official "start" of human civilization with the Sumerians in Mesopotamia, the Iberian Peninsula was joined with a northern coastline of Africa (currently in present-day Morocco). The Mediterranean Sea was dammed from the replenishing waters of the Atlantic, and it thusly dried up, leaving a vast and barren salt desert. Shortly thereafter, the same thing occurred to the Black Sea, and it being dammed from the dwindling waters of the Mediterranean, also began to dry up.

Unlike the Mediterranean, bordered by a massive desert, the Black Sea was (and still is) surrounded by agriculturally fertile lands, and plant life began to grow. Over the course of several million years, it would be vastly incorrect to refer to this area as the Black Sea, as it was a very lush valley. A lush valley which attracted the attention of human beings, who settled there.

Several millenia passed, and Iberia separated from Africa, allowing the waters of the Atlantic to once again fill the Mediterranean. This was of no consequence to the human population living in the former Black Sea, as it was still dammed from the Mediterranean. But after enough time, the pressure of the Mediterranean Sea overcame their protective rock barrier, and annihilated the human way of life there. Thousands are likely to have perished, a select few having potentially survived to tell the apocalyptic tale to generations to come. Imagine the sound of the water coming through the breached dam with the weight of the Mediterranean Sea behind it? Perhaps the thunderous rush the Bible (and many other holy books) describe?

And what of the interpretation of these primitive peoples, who hadn't the knowledge of plate tectonics, erosion are anything remotely close? If you ask me, the interpretation was a religious one. That single event changed the course of human history as a whole.

http://www.earthinstitute.columbia.edu/news/story9_1.html

Liquid Shadow Aug 05, 2006, 06:51pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
Ok, here's my opinion, I personally would not take people who believe everything in the bible as real events seriously. I mean, it's common sense, like many people have said, Noah Ark is just not possible, and let alone Jesus walking on water and stuff. It's just common sense, unless, of course, that those stories symbolize something higher.



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Bitmap Aug 07, 2006, 02:54am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
I wanted to add another topic on the Noah's Ark story, even though this thread is prectically dead now. :P

How did they manage to feed all of the animals. Omnivores and herbivores, I can kind of understand them taking A BUNCH of edible plants, vegetables, and fruits. However, what about carnivores? I mean, how could they feed them without having to sacrifice another animal. Did they bring spares?

________
"None of you understand. I'm not locked up in here with you. YOU'RE locked up in here with ME." - Walter Kovacs, A.K.A. Rorschach.
FordGT90Concept Aug 07, 2006, 04:40am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
Josh (pg 1)
Also, our earth can't be as old as evolutionists say that it is, because the sun would have burned it up millions of years ago.


Current estimates place most of the solar system at about 4.55 billion years (+/- 1%) old.

http://www.astro.uiuc.edu/~kaler/AstroBrief/chapter12/sunage.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of-earth.html (this url shows how they come up with that number)


Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_giant
As Earth's sun is of one solar mass, it is expected to become a red giant in about five billion years.


This places our Earth's expected life span at about 9-10 billion years when, most likely, it gets engulfed by the sun. This site explains why: http://www.historyoftheuniverse.com/starold.html



Storm Petrel
Ok, here's my opinion, I personally would not take people who believe everything in the bible as real events seriously. I mean, it's common sense, like many people have said, Noah Ark is just not possible, and let alone Jesus walking on water and stuff. It's just common sense, unless, of course, that those stories symbolize something higher.


There is evidence which suggests massive localized flooding in the middle east which could be the root of Noah's story. There's also a second theory (not as strong) that there was a cloud of water vapor surrounding the Earth while the dinasaurs roamed the planet. When that vapor fell to the Earth is when the Oceans supposedly grew and the great flood the Bible speaks of occured.

Remember, the Bible is considered a historical document because it accurately covers much of the events in the Middle East.

________________________
If I remember what I forgot, I have not forgotten it.
.:Mindful:. Aug 07, 2006, 08:39am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
I love how much of your guy's knowledge is being spent on a subject that will never change anyone's mind. I don't care how much science you throw at me... I'm a believer. Know matter how much information I throw at you.... you're not going to believe me.


But anyhow...

I think the one thing that everyone is starting to forget about the discussion with Noah's Ark...


Is we are talking about God here. According to the Bible he created Earth. Don't you think he would have mentally told all the animals to come to the boat. Or helped build the boat by giving men will. Men who have the determination and courage to do what they want.... they can do anything.

I mean... seriously. Considering we are talking a idol in our religion.... its kinda impossible to prove anyone wrong. God, as assumed in our religion, is oh powerful. So he could have made these things possible.



Now... there is only one thing that irritates me about SOME atheists.


Most atheists and most people have morals about not affecting other people. But then.. SOME atheists push there ways onto the government (by complaining and moaning because they can) and force the government to make all our traditions and ways be altered because SOME atheists can't seem to just deal with the fact that the majority of the people don't have a problem with that. But then they have the guts to say that their morals are "Aslong as it doesn't affect other people". To me, altering the countries ways on saying or acting "religious" practices is freaking affecting other people. And I'm not pointing fingers.


For instance...


We know can't even say "Merry Christmas" to other people. Why in the hell can't I say Merry Christmas? Why does a couple or just one atheist have to ruin it for the rest of us? Even people who don't believe in the religion have no problem saying Merry Christmas. And noone can force me to not say Merry Christmas. Just because they have to get all the companies (such as Walmart) and government to not say it... I'm going to do as I dang well please. And our country has been saying "Merry Christmas" for quite some time. It has been presented as the happy time of the year. And if you don't believe in it.... then its New Year's for you. More cheer for the rest of us, I guess.

Saying "Happy Holidays" just freaking blows. Its retarded and we shouldn't have to say it. If I worked at Walmart I'd say freaking Merry Christmas.

Sometimes I just can't believe some people. Just can't BELIEVE what SOME people will go through just to ruin the enjoyment for the majority of the whole gosh darn nation. I mean... COME ON!!



Plus:


We can't pray is schools. Now that I can understand a little more. Youth atheists don't want to get their undies in a bundle. Or their parents don't want to have their kid coming home preaching the Lord's word. But heck, I need that help. Exams suck man. Seriously. Gimme a break. I want to have SOME type of help. Guess I gotta you the bathroom for that. Just don't pray on your knees in the bathroom. Thats just freaking weird. Seriously. Weird.

Once again a FEW atheists did that. And they usually are pretty hypocritical about it... saying the "Aslong as it doesn't affect anyone" followed by the whopping "Effecting the nation's traditions".

It was nice that I got to have this discussion.





But wait.

One second.


Now what really ticks me off is the National Anthem. That we say at the beginning of class or whatever. Like in.... Elementary. And now we can't even say that? What the flippin rip? Just because it says God in it. Oh my. Our nation was founded off the religion. Guess we better have some atheist do our countries rights and all. Wow.


Some things in life are just really retarded. So unbelievable.



Thank you, thank you,

Miles


Beavis Khan Aug 07, 2006, 09:17am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
Now what really ticks me off is the National Anthem. That we say at the beginning of class or whatever. Like in.... Elementary. And now we can't even say that? What the flippin rip? Just because it says God in it. Oh my. Our nation was founded off the religion. Guess we better have some atheist do our countries rights and all.


I think what you're looking for here is the Pledge of Allegiance. Any idea when "under God" was added to the pledge of allegiance?

Hint: recently enough that my parents learned the version without that phrase, and my grandfather still says the original version unless he makes a conscious effort to do otherwise.

Any idea when "In God We Trust" was made the official motto (see US currency)? It's amazing how many people just assume this stuff has been with us since the beginning.

Little teeny weeny atheists don't want to get their undies in a bundle.


I don't even know where to begin with this one - but personally, I'd suggest you learn some tolerance. You know, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", and all that?

Hell, I didn't even need to go to church to learn that. Everything I needed to know in life I learned from Dennis the Menace.

My religion is kindness.

- The Dalai Lama

____
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong."

- H.L. Mencken
leastcmplicated Aug 07, 2006, 09:35am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
So say merry Christmas to christians, dont assume that I'm a christian. Would I assume your jewish and say happy hanukkah? no, becuase i'm respectful if I dont know your religion I say happy holidays... pure and simple not everyone in this country is christian, you keep forgetting that. Happy holidays isnt because of atheists, its out of respect for NON CHRISTIANS, not atheists, I could care less if you say merry christmas to me... but maybe someone who is jewish or celebrates kwaanza might mind that you assumed. Not everyone who shops at Walmart is a christian...


Prayer is school should be personal, NOT MANDATORY, if someone wants pray for that test, then he can do it on his own time not that god will help him cause he should have studied...

Hello, it was our own government that has the separation of church and state, not the atheists... this isnt a modern law, not that it matters because they cant seem to keep god out of anything political anyway.

One more point on Noah's Ark... what kept the animals from fighting? And If god is so powerful why didnt he just either 1) create the ark and transport the animals to the boat himself or 2) just wipe out the humans with the blink of an eye? why go through Noah? what was the point? all powerful he can do whatever he wants, why make Noah and his family go through all that?

____________________________________
"Log off, that cookies**t makes me nervous" - Tony Soprano
"I don't know what to believe, I just show up and breathe anymore"

Michael A. Aug 07, 2006, 10:23am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)

Michael A.
Website: http://itnode.net
leastcmplicated Aug 07, 2006, 10:49am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
Not National Anthem, Pledge of Allegience... National Anthem mentions nothing about god.

____________________________________
"Log off, that cookies**t makes me nervous" - Tony Soprano
"I don't know what to believe, I just show up and breathe anymore"

Adam Kolak Aug 07, 2006, 11:30am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
The stories in the christian bible and jewish torah (same stories, different language) are not stuff that acctually happened, they are just life lessons to teach people how to act, behave, and react, etc. Even my old Rabbi told me that the stories are not acctually true events, but just examples of how to be a "good person". The Priest at the church (Roman Catholic) I use to go to though, did think the stories were true events though. And that is another reason I am now somewhat Athiestic. I hate religion, but sometimes I still believe in a higher "power".

Catholic Church says some parts of bible not true:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-1811332,00.html

Josh, maybe in your church it is only suggested that you donate money to the church, but the church I went to was a huge Roman Catholic church with thousands of people and 90 percent of the people donated $20 each Sunday to the church.

Now assuming that people donate $20 per Sunday that is $80 per month or $960 per year. $960 per year times 5000 church members that donate money (estimate, thier is probally more than that) = $4,800,000. Why in hell does a small town (25,000 people) church need $4.8 million per year? Now that is only one church. Now multiply $4.8 million times the 500 roman catholic churches in the USA (estimate, thier are probally more than that too) = $2,400,000,000. So the Roman Catholic religion sucks about $2.4 billion from americans every year (assuming thier are only 500 churches with 5000 people in each). Now look at the rest of the world. Add another $2.4 billion for Europe, another $2.4 billion for Asia, another $2.4 billion for whatevers left. Now the Roman Catholic organization is now making nearly $10 Billion per year. Why in hell does one religion need to make nearly $10 Billion per year?

Lets try another figure. According to wikipedia thier are 1,098,366,000 Roman Catholics in the world as of 2004. If each person donated just $20 USD each year than the Cathloic Organization makes $21,967,320,000 per year. Which makes the last figure of $10 billion look off by about $11 million. And remember this is now assuming $20 per person per year.

Okay that numbers not accurate because its usually a family that donates not just one person. So divide that total 1,098,366,000 Roman Catholics by 4 to get the number of Roman catholic familys = 274,591,500. So thier are about 274,591,500 families that practice Roman Catholicism. Now lets say each family donates $500 per year. So if all Roman Catholic familys (assuming each has 4) donates $500 to the church organization per year then the Roman Catholic Organization as a whole makes $137,295,750,000 per year from its members.

So if my numbers are right, the Roman Catholic Church is taking somewhere between $10 Billion and $138 Billion per year from its members. Making it the world's richest govermental organization by a long shot. And in my opinion that just ain't right. Religion should not take a single penny from its followers otherwise its just an evil organization stealing your money and telling you bs stories.

So in conclusion, if you want to make money the easy way, start a religion and get lots of people to follow it, you'll be richer than Sir William Henry Gates III in no time.

Adam Kolak
Moderator, Hardware Analysis
adam@hardwareanalysis.com
DFI LP P35-T2RS | Xeon Quad @ 3.2Ghz | 4GB DDR2-1000 | 8800GT 512MB | See Profile
Michael A. Aug 07, 2006, 11:35am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
I can understand that religions require some money to pay the salaries of their leaders, but I agree that no church should be raking in money by the billions. The Pope and the Roman Catholic Church have their own country. In my opinion, that just isn't right.

Michael A.
Website: http://itnode.net

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