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  Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc) 
 
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Reason Aug 07, 2006, 11:40am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
So in conclusion, if you want to make money the easy way, start a religion and get lots of people to follow it, you'll be richer than Sir William Henry Gates III in no time


L Ron Hubbard comes to mind...

_________________
Ultima Ratio Regum
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Adam Kolak Aug 07, 2006, 11:40am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
I agree Micheal. It just took me 5 paragraphs to explain what you did in 2 sentences.

Adam Kolak
Moderator, Hardware Analysis
adam@hardwareanalysis.com
DFI LP P35-T2RS | Xeon Quad @ 3.2Ghz | 4GB DDR2-1000 | 8800GT 512MB | See Profile
leastcmplicated Aug 07, 2006, 11:49am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
Not bad for a supposed "non profit"

____________________________________
"Log off, that cookies**t makes me nervous" - Tony Soprano
"I don't know what to believe, I just show up and breathe anymore"

FordGT90Concept Aug 07, 2006, 01:33pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
.:Mindful:.
We can't pray is schools.


That's what we refer to as separation of church and state. It does not happen enough in modern politics. This is why all the major issues, such as gay rights, is bound to never settle. Public schools are deemed state property--government property. Religion has no place there. As leastcmplicated said, you can pray on government property but it's on you're own terms--not mandatory.

________________________
If I remember what I forgot, I have not forgotten it.
Bungle Aug 07, 2006, 03:51pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
~~~~~
Saying "Happy Holidays" just freaking blows. Its retarded and we shouldn't have to say it. If I worked at Walmart I'd say freaking Merry Christmas.
~~~~~

No you wouldn't... I work at wal-mart... well for a few more days anyway cuz I FOUND A NEW JOB!!!! :) but anyway. What you would be saying is somthing to the effect of : "dammit is it christmas already again!? I hate this holiday, it has nothing to do with its origins, all it is some some big stupid fiasco with thousands of p**sed off customers long hours and I have to spend money I don't have on crap other people don't need just because its "how things are done during christmas"! Bah!! we should move christmas to the 29th of february so I only have to put up with this once every 4 years.... Is it January yet!?"

BTW people in retail hate chritmas.... if you couldn't tell.

Core i7 4770K @ 4.4GHz | Corsair H110 | Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD5H | 32GB 1866MHz Corsair Vengeance
2x EVGA GTX 780 SLI | 256GB OCZ Vector SSD | 4TB Hitachi 7K4000
Corsair AX1200 PSU | Corsair 650D | Windows 7 Ultimate x64
.:Mindful:. Aug 07, 2006, 04:07pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
I will admit that it is really annoying when other Christians have to make it known that they believe in Christianity by praying with there hands folded and whatever.

Sorry about the whole National Anthem thing.. that was a few moments of stupidity on my part.
Also sorry about the negative approach on my whole thing.


I realize that not all atheists or non-believers have to force others into what THEY believe. And I won't say the we Christians don't do that either. Its just that say "Merry Christmas" has been around for so long and society has brought it about to not have anything to do with Jesus anyway... so why ruin it? Nowadays everyone just sees it as "Money is tight time..." because no one actually treats it how its supposed to be treated. But thats okay. But to alter something that barely has anything to do with a religion shouldn't be done. I mean... if you privately celebrate Christmas in your own home with the "Wholesome Christianity Approach" then that is perfectly acceptable. And just a bunch of presents and "Santa" has nothing wrong with it either. So why the fuss? If you made a non-believers Holiday I would probably not complain to the government about it. Sure, I wouldn't celebrate it... but I would acknowledge it as a perfectly acceptable Holiday.


Accepting a holiday doesn't mean that you have to celebrate it... just means that you are showing respect towards what other people believe in. For someone to go to the government about it is beyond me. I mean.... its free will. If Church is in school and you don't believe in that.... then don't practice it. If they force you to... then complain. But if they aren't forcing upon you what you don't feel like doing... then why argue?


If I was put into a Evolution class and I didn't believe that.... I wouldn't ask the principal if they can shut the course down. Either I wouldn't do it or just learn the material and then not believe it. Extra knowledge never hurt anyone. And having a debate and not knowing anything about the opposing side doesn't help either....



Its all about respect. Sometimes I can't deal with atheists... sometimes I just leave it alone and acknowledge that they are just like me. If you met me in person... you would have absolutely no idea that I'm a Christian. And I hope you would be the same.


Kind Regards,
Miles

FordGT90Concept Aug 07, 2006, 04:19pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
The evolution theory is taught in schools because there's solid evidence to back it up. Religion, on the other hand, is very hard to back. Every time evolution came up in school, they never go into the human or religious sides of it. They just teach the theory. Personally, I don't believe in evolution either because it implies a lot of spontaneous changes which, nature proves those are generally fatal in one way or another. However, I believe in adaptation over time. The only mystery with that theory is how those changes get to the genetic level and then passed on to offspring. If and when that mystery is solved, anything is possible given enough time but no changes would happen unless survival requires it.

________________________
If I remember what I forgot, I have not forgotten it.
Reason Aug 07, 2006, 04:36pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
I believe in adaptation over time


What is evolution if not adaptation over time?

no changes would happen unless survival requires it.


Survival does require it. Intra- and inter-species competition for food and habitat mandates that creatures who have the best strategy for reproduction will win out in the long run. If the girafffe's long neck means they are able to get more nutrition to themselves and their offspring than some unnamed competitor, then the giraffe will reproduce more successfully than said competitor.

_________________
Ultima Ratio Regum
leastcmplicated Aug 07, 2006, 04:38pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)


I realize that not all atheists or non-believers have to force others into what THEY believe. And I won't say the we Christians don't do that either. Its just that say "Merry Christmas" has been around for so long and society has brought it about to not have anything to do with Jesus anyway... so why ruin it?


Know whats been around longer than Christmas? Hanukkah, so why dont you just start saying Happy Hanukkah since its been around longer? You know whats been around longer than easter? Passover, so why dont you start saying Happy Pesach instead of Happy Easter? your logic is irrelevent. How long a phrase or holiday has been around is irrelevent. Its respecting others that matters. Besides, as far as age goes, the Jews trump the Christians everytime, and i'm sure some eastern religion trump judaism... but i'm talking about the monotheist religions. another thing, do you reject Pagans?


Nowadays everyone just sees it as "Money is tight time..." because no one actually treats it how its supposed to be treated. But thats okay. But to alter something that barely has anything to do with a religion shouldn't be done. I mean... if you privately celebrate Christmas in your own home with the "Wholesome Christianity Approach" then that is perfectly acceptable. And just a bunch of presents and "Santa" has nothing wrong with it either. So why the fuss? If you made a non-believers Holiday I would probably not complain to the government about it. Sure, I wouldn't celebrate it... but I would acknowledge it as a perfectly acceptable Holiday.


whats being altered? every radio station still plays xmas music for 3 damn months, u still get the little tree in the office and the secret santa. You still have stockings out there in the front and decorations right there in the front so you dont have to walk, everything is catered to Christmas, nothing is open on Christmas, sucks for us but there ya go... how does it hurt to greet someone by saying happy holidays and actually consider that the person you are saying that to isnt Christian?


Accepting a holiday doesn't mean that you have to celebrate it... just means that you are showing respect towards what other people believe in. For someone to go to the government about it is beyond me. I mean.... its free will. If Church is in school and you don't believe in that.... then don't practice it. If they force you to... then complain. But if they aren't forcing upon you what you don't feel like doing... then why argue?


to the first line... EXACTLY! show respect for other peoples holidays and dont assume, which is what you are complaining about in the first place. You say "respect towards what other people believe in" but then you will be stubborn and tell everyone merry xmas? practice what you preach brother.

A public school should NOT have religion, I'm sorry, thats what perocial (sp?) schools are for. You want to have led prayer, go to christian/jewish/muslin school. Dont force your beliefs on a group of people who are mixed or dont have a religion, its wrong. School is a place to learn about history, economics, science, geography, math, english, foreign languages, teamwork, sports, and computers. Church/synogogue is the place you learn about god.


If I was put into a Evolution class and I didn't believe that.... I wouldn't ask the principal if they can shut the course down. Either I wouldn't do it or just learn the material and then not believe it. Extra knowledge never hurt anyone. And having a debate and not knowing anything about the opposing side doesn't help either....


problem there is that evolution is based on science, evolution happens all around us, look it up. There is nothing to back up creationism except for the bible, its the only place creationism is mentioned, yet, evolution happens everyday... watch animal planet sometime, Jeff Corwin in particular.



Its all about respect. Sometimes I can't deal with atheists... sometimes I just leave it alone and acknowledge that they are just like me. If you met me in person... you would have absolutely no idea that I'm a Christian. And I hope you would be the same.


Ya know, same goes for Christians, except Atheists dont push their beliefs on other people, theres nothing to push! lol some Christians do though, missions, handing out those stupid fliers that are the size of credit cards, bunch of scripture and w/e. Its annoying, there are literally dozens of churches in a 5 mile radius of me, i know where to go if I want to be saved, you dont have to try and scare me into it.

____________________________________
"Log off, that cookies**t makes me nervous" - Tony Soprano
"I don't know what to believe, I just show up and breathe anymore"

~Vel Aug 07, 2006, 04:40pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
i have a somewhat random question to both parties (depending upon which, personal preference vs. beliefs). what exactly do you find wrong with homosexuality? (if anything)

Liquid Shadow Aug 07, 2006, 04:42pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
I find nothing wrong with homosexuality. Although it might cause some declination in population ;) but that's fine with me.



--------------------------------------------------------------
ADK 1Q AR Laptop
Core i5 520M | 4GB RAM | ATI HD4570
leastcmplicated Aug 07, 2006, 04:44pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
I find nothing wrong with homosexuality either.

Storm: hey, maybe it will even out all the people having like 10 kids because they only believe in the rhythm method... which obviously doenst work lol

____________________________________
"Log off, that cookies**t makes me nervous" - Tony Soprano
"I don't know what to believe, I just show up and breathe anymore"

Liquid Shadow Aug 07, 2006, 04:48pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
LOL @ leastcomplicated

One other good thing about homosexual people, especially guys, is that the straight guys like us will have more girls to choose from ;)



--------------------------------------------------------------
ADK 1Q AR Laptop
Core i5 520M | 4GB RAM | ATI HD4570
A_Pickle Aug 07, 2006, 04:50pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
GT90
It does not happen enough in modern politics.


My biggest complaint about George W. Bush is his borderline zealous religiousness. George H.W. Bush advocated that "Atheists shouldn't be considered US citizens," but since he'd never get that passed into law, it went relatively unnoticed by many.

Religion has no place in government.

.:Mindful:.
If you made a non-believers Holiday I would probably not complain to the government about it.


I didn't complain to the government, I say "Merry Christmas" all the time during Christmas. I wasn't even aware it was in dispute and whatever the case, this was really a far-off rant in the first place, and it's fairly moot as it is likely that no user on Hardware Analysis was the "one" who made "Merry Christmas" a "bad" statement.

You've my word that if I ever met some of these people that complain about some of the most trivial things, I would have to smash a cheeseburger in their collective faces. There are other things that I disagreed with (Ten Commandments at a courthouse) but I wouldn't have complained about them, I'd have done something about it, like putting some Islamic law right next to them. Complaining is irritating most of the time.

.:Mindful:.
"Wholesome Christianity Approach"


Now with starch! :D

Sorry, I had to. :)

.:Mindful:.
If I was put into a Evolution class and I didn't believe that.... I wouldn't ask the principal if they can shut the course down.


In my schools, we had religious classes as well as science classes. Buses would take kids to the religious institution that the class focused on, where they'd stay for an hour. Then the buses came back to school for the kids to go to their next classes. The buses were also funded by the state -- not religious institutions. I can't say that the education system in my state is "biased" in any way. : /

I might add, "Evolution" isn't a religious course. It's a course based on evidence and science, just like everything else that's taught in schools. You could complain about it, and it would be just like you complaining about how math classes don't teach the Bible Code.

.:Mindful:.
Extra knowledge never hurt anyone.


Folks in Japan might disagree with you on that one, regarding a certain event that took place in Hiroshima a while back... : /

.:Mindful:.
If you met me in person... you would have absolutely no idea that I'm a Christian.


Unless you said, "Hey, I'm .:Mindful:. on Hardware Analysis, who are you?" :D

But seriously. I really don't care if you're Christian or what. I'm not, but the easy majority of my friends are Christian. Seriously, I know like, maybe three Atheists in person, one Muslim, and like... twenty Christians. And I'm not saying they are Christian "because their parents were," they're more than old enough to establish the decision themselves and they all attend Church (by choice) on Sundays, some of them go to a Wednesday youth group, etc.

Tolerance isn't that hard...

~Vel
what exactly do you find wrong with homosexuality?


Nothing at all.

Adam Kolak Aug 07, 2006, 05:55pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
I don't find anything wrong with Homosexuality either, and thats just yet another thing that makes certain religions look bad in my opinion. Religions should not tell people how to have sex or whom to do it with.

Adam Kolak
Moderator, Hardware Analysis
adam@hardwareanalysis.com
DFI LP P35-T2RS | Xeon Quad @ 3.2Ghz | 4GB DDR2-1000 | 8800GT 512MB | See Profile
.:Mindful:. Aug 07, 2006, 08:15pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
PFFFFTT!!! Whatever Waterdrop.

The bible never said ANYTHING about homosexuality... it was only a few uptight Christians said that.

Just because it started with a man and a women doesn't mean it discriminates against homos. Seriously... God could have put two gay men (or lesbian women) but it wouldn't have started a civilization..


And I have absolutely NO problem with homosexuality or homosexuals.


Kind Regards,
Miles


I might have a problem if I was confronted with Michael Jackson... but that is a ENTIRELY DIFFERENT story.

~Vel Aug 07, 2006, 09:24pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
"it was only a few uptight Christians said that."

a few? um, no, trust me, it's more in the neighborhood of hundreds of thousands. i get more christans saying i'm going to hell for being heteroflexible (look it up) than i do straight guys droping some lewd comment about it or somes**t, and i live in a blue state.

Matt BillyBob Aug 07, 2006, 09:53pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
----------------
BTW people in retail hate chritmas.... if you couldn't tell.
----------------

so true..... and the worst part is that at my workplace, we start to stock christmas gear at the start of october which makes absolutely no sense, but from there on my workload is effectively doubled :( its also when half the junior staff (ie. me) start to quit lol

and chistmas week.....oh dear :(

BTW Jim, i wanted to apologise for the statement in my last post, I meant to finish that statement a little differently but I completely forgot a good half a dozen words which effectively made me quite silly, so sorry :( You obviously do have a right to want reasonable answers and i cant give answers for alot of them.

But then, science doesnt explain everything either, and I think its arrogant to believe we will one day understand absolutely every little detail about the universe at any stage of our existance, regardless of wether our minds just cant cope or because we will destroy ourselves before then ;) Things like the string theory or evolution theory are more explanations to questions we cant yet accurately answer. Granted, evolution has alot of evidence, but while the grounds for bacterial and genetic evolution is solid...to the point where its now fact, large scale evolution (animals, bird, everything evolving from fish ect) has evidence that is well...less than convincing for me (I get bombarded with it regularly at uni). And after looking at criteria for what makes a theory, string theory is more of a philosophy.

Oh, and the Roman Catholics are hardly a decent representation of a reasonable Christian community...no offense to any roman catholics, but alot of the ones i've met tend to go to church out of sheer guilt rather than wanting to be there. So while I dont necessarily agree that religion is a profit exercise for a select portion of the church, its definitely true for some. Its horribly wrong, especially when you picture the lovely churches laced with gold in the Vatican City built while literally thousands of people starved to death just outside its walls. I want to find the hoarded treasure thats rumoured to be hidden by the Catholics somewhere underneath the Vatican :O

Also with evolution, I'm pretty sure evolution/genetic mutation is dynamic...it happens regardless of the situation of the animal. The reason being, as matt tonner pointed out, is that animals consistently mutate in order to become the strongest species, which is part of natural selection. These mutations are basically created out of pure luck and chance. If the mutation is helpful to the survival of the species, that species will be more prosperous. If that mutation is dangerous to the creature ( which is more often the case) then that creature will either die quite quickly, or the mutation in the code will simply be re-written.

Its times like this I wish I paid more attention in genetics class ;)


Bitmap Aug 07, 2006, 10:33pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
I have no problem with homosexuality. Heck, one of my best friends is gay, another a lesbian, and a third (female) is bisexual.



Now with starch! :D

Sorry, I had to. :-)


LOL @ A_Pickle!


I realize that not all atheists or non-believers have to force others into what THEY believe. And I won't say the we Christians don't do that either.


I have a story involving that one. I was sitting at the dinner table with my family (one of the few times I get to anymore, what with working full-time for the summer, and then school in the afternoon and work at night come the end of August) and I believe it was a few days before Easter. I hadn't told my family that I was a confirmed atheist out of respect, and I didn't want her to disown me or anything. Anyhow, she was talking to the rest of the family (my father and younger brother, all Protestant Christians) about going to church on Easter. My mom asked if I was going to come along, and before I could get my usual "No, I think I'll stay home, but thanks," out of my mouth, my dad said, "He doesn't have to go if he doesn't want to." My mom replied, "Well, it's not like he doesn't believe." I spoke out, "Actually... I don't." My mom looked at me for a second, whilst my dad resumed eating. My mom then, after a sigh, said, "Oh. Well," and trailed off. To this day, my mom is trying to convert me. Always trying to get me to read the bible, always telling me, "the good Lord helped me through this, and he can help you too." I want to remind you that I am tolerant of all religions, that is, until those religious people begin to preach to me, and try to convert me. Heck, one time, I went off on a rant on my blog, and a fairly violent one, because my girlfriend and I had just gotten into a fight, and my mom read it. The entry involved me "...[not] understand[ing] a damn thing in this world." Upon finishing her read, she promptly sent me an email from her work, "I know how you feel, and I know you're gonna say I'm crazy, but just hear me out. Read the Gospel of John." I have NEVER pressed agnosticism or atheism onto her, but she constantly presses Christianity on me. My dad however, is more tolerant, and understanding of my choice. In fact, when he heard what my mom had done, he went downstairs to her, where she was watching TV, and said, "Back off!"

I also had a discussion with my dad about religion/atheism. We have these kinds of discussions a lot, and they are always mature and intelligent conversations, not flat out yelling arguments over who's right and who's wrong. Anyhow, he told me once that my mother thinks I'm lost, and is afraid. May I say, that I have never felt so far away from "lost" in my life, especially recently, but, maybe that's just me. :D My dad doesn't think I'm lost. He knows I've made my choices because of what I have learned and experienced. I appreciate that. My mother thinks I'm lost, and is trying to "help me find myself." That I don't appreciate.

I will accept and respect anyone's choice of religion/belief/etc. if they respect mine. I'm not going to try to change anyone's mind, unless they try the same thing to me.

________
"None of you understand. I'm not locked up in here with you. YOU'RE locked up in here with ME." - Walter Kovacs, A.K.A. Rorschach.
FordGT90Concept Aug 08, 2006, 04:07am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Topic of Faith (Religion/Morals/Atheist/etc)
I feel that homosexuality is morally wrong but I understand how people can be sexually inclined one way or another. These people often cannot remain married to the opposite sex for long so the only way they'll be happy with with another of the same. I think government should not punish these people in any way shape or form which the way taxation is set up, it does. They're people too and should be treated with respect and dignity even though they have sexual tendencies that stray from the norm.

________________________
If I remember what I forgot, I have not forgotten it.

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