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  Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive? 
 
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Dublin_Gunner Mar 15, 2007, 10:56am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive?
PC gaming is not in a bad way.

Fair enough, last year wasnt the best year for games, with lots of intended releases being delayed, but this year that is sure to change.

You would be surprised at the amount of PC gamers that can afford decently specc'd rigs.

Majority of PC gamers lie between the 20-35 age bracket, with quite a fair few being older (if not MUCH older) than that.

Sure, the younger, school going kids, who rely on playing games on 'Daddy's' PC wont be able to upgrade, but then again, a $500 gfx card isnt aimed at them anyway, is it?

Bare in mind that new DX card, ranging from $70 - $250 will be out soon, and the cost of CPU's is going through the floor, with new Core 2 being priced a little over $100 in the coming months.

Sure, not everyone can afford to stay with high end hardware (myself included) but who needs a X6800, 4 gigs of ram and a 680i mobo to play any game?

Considering my A64 3000+, cheap Gigabyte board, and 1gb ram can easily play any game out there, the only major cost is the GFX card, but, as I stated above, new cards will be relatively cheap.

Therefore, majority of people who are working, can afford to upgrade should they so wish or need.

Lancool PC K62
Phenom II x3 @ 3.5Ghz
4GB DDR2-800
ASUS GTX570 DirectCU II
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angryhippy Mar 15, 2007, 11:33am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive?
I'm with Dublin on the upgrade costs. I just did GPU (7800GT), mobo (ABIT AB9), DDR2 (Geil Ultra PC2 800 2x512), and CPU (E6400) for $525US. If I can do it on disability pay of $600 a month, then if you're working you should be able to afford it. Where there's a will, there's a way! I'm just going to have to do some serious fasting this month, that's all.

Get Hippied out!
http://www.angryhippy.net
Me at work: http://tinyurl.com/3nvncb3
My rig! A Blah blah.With a blah blah! SWEET! http://tinyurl.com/4yujmff
Da Beast! http://tinyurl.com/3sapr2b
i5 3570K 4.6GHz http://snipurl.com/26r3cot
Win7-8 Pro 64bit
Dublin_Gunner Mar 15, 2007, 11:49am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive?
lol


You could cook up that old ECS mobo you have there!!!

Lancool PC K62
Phenom II x3 @ 3.5Ghz
4GB DDR2-800
ASUS GTX570 DirectCU II
FATRAY Mar 15, 2007, 11:56am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive?
I am a dedicated and devoted PC gamer. I have many online gaming buddies and we have all chatted about Vista. From around 100 people I have chatted with, NON have Vista. Couple had tried the beta and dumped it. Dozen have a DX10 card and are disappointed with them, not as high a performer as thought. Almost everyone 90%+ have said they will upgrade to Vista if the latest release of HALO is Vista only!

Asus A8N32SLI-Deluxe
Opteron 180 Dual Core @ 2750
2x 7800GT OC
2 gigs Corsair C2 Pro
2 WD 74 Gig Raptors & some others for 900gigs total
Creative Augity2zs, had XF-I, but card sucks I even replace all the capacitors
ATI Theater550 Pro PCI Express
D
CrAsHnBuRnXp Mar 15, 2007, 12:02pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive?
I believe Halo2 for PC is being released in June of 07. At least it was the last time I checked.

CrAsHnBuRnXp Mar 15, 2007, 12:08pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive?
Carl Sullivan said:
DublinGunner said:
Carl Sullivan said: [quote]because you really had to upgrade your computer just to run alot of direct 9 games that ran fine on XP. [quote]

Obviously coming from someone who hasnt actually used Vista yet.

My DX9 games run just fine on vista without ANY hardware upgrade.

BTW, dont look at my sig, I'm still waiting on my new mobo. I'm using an A64 3000+ at 2.3, & 1Gb ram.



I am using Vista now, and tell me playing Need for Speed Carbon, loses alot of frame rates in Vista, it ran fine in XP. I had to turn alot of stuff down in Vista to play this game.
My setup is a Athlon 64 300+ with 1.25 GB RAM, and a ATI Radeon X1600 Pro 512.

I bet you that if you got 2GB of RAM, that game would run fine. Having 1GB of RAM for Vista when it eats about 600MB of a fresh install, and then trying to play a game = not a good idea.

angryhippy Mar 15, 2007, 12:10pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive?
DublinGunner said:
lol You could cook up that old ECS mobo you have there!!!
I was thinking of selling it. Like New ECS P4M800Pro-M $15 or will trade for 5 lb. block of cheddar cheese, OBO! <g>

Get Hippied out!
http://www.angryhippy.net
Me at work: http://tinyurl.com/3nvncb3
My rig! A Blah blah.With a blah blah! SWEET! http://tinyurl.com/4yujmff
Da Beast! http://tinyurl.com/3sapr2b
i5 3570K 4.6GHz http://snipurl.com/26r3cot
Win7-8 Pro 64bit
CrAsHnBuRnXp Mar 15, 2007, 12:16pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive?
Ray Wroten said:
I am a dedicated and devoted PC gamer. I have many online gaming buddies and we have all chatted about Vista. From around 100 people I have chatted with, NON have Vista. Couple had tried the beta and dumped it. Dozen have a DX10 card and are disappointed with them, not as high a performer as thought. Almost everyone 90%+ have said they will upgrade to Vista if the latest release of HALO is Vista only!

I would bet that they installed Vista and then looked at how much ram it ate then dumped it. How long did they use the betas? Long enough to judge it? THe people that you have talked to about owning a DX10 card and them being disappointed with them, I almost dont want to believe just becuase if they have a good enough CPU and 2GB of Ram in their system, they can run ALL of their games on absolute max settings. I know I can. I am completely satisfied with my DX10 card. I bet the people you talked to had high expectations of the card for some reason. They probably over hyped the cards to themselves and then when they got it, they were disappointed.

And yes, Halo2 is a Vista exclusive.

angryhippy Mar 15, 2007, 12:19pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive?
CrAsHnBuRnXp said:
Carl Sullivan said: [quote]DublinGunner said: [quote]Carl Sullivan said: [quote] Ray Wroten said:


angryhippy aka payton said:
I'm getting dizzy!

Get Hippied out!
http://www.angryhippy.net
Me at work: http://tinyurl.com/3nvncb3
My rig! A Blah blah.With a blah blah! SWEET! http://tinyurl.com/4yujmff
Da Beast! http://tinyurl.com/3sapr2b
i5 3570K 4.6GHz http://snipurl.com/26r3cot
Win7-8 Pro 64bit
FATRAY Mar 15, 2007, 12:29pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive?
Yea they pretty much bought the DX10 card, installed it, cranked every setting on max and expected it to run flawlessly well above 30fps in BF2142. When frames dropped below 10 they got p**sed. That is there first thought, after they settle down and figure things out they are content.
Personally I have 2x 7800GT's running BF2142 @ 1680x1050 4x Antialiasing with some settings on low and medium. Runs perfect @ 45+ FPS.

Asus A8N32SLI-Deluxe
Opteron 180 Dual Core @ 2750
2x 7800GT OC
2 gigs Corsair C2 Pro
2 WD 74 Gig Raptors & some others for 900gigs total
Creative Augity2zs, had XF-I, but card sucks I even replace all the capacitors
ATI Theater550 Pro PCI Express
D
Merc Mar 15, 2007, 01:25pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive?
I hate these kind of posts that say "Yeah my friend put an 8800GTX in his rig and it can't even run BF2142 at full tilt. FPS drops to 10 at times. The cards are a big disappointment." When they say the FPS dropped with the 8 series card did they have facts to back up their assertion that it is the 8800 card's fault? Do they have 2GB of RAM? Did 2142 run wth all the eye candy on, at max resolution, on their old vid card but no longer does so with the 8 series cards? What is the make up of the rest of their system? Please be specific, when you make statements like the above, to prove your assertion that an 8800series card can't run BF2142 at max everything. It blurs the argument and, sorry to say, shows the ignorance of the person making the statement as the card is just one part of the whole system and it cannot compensate for weaknesses elsewhere in the rig. Give us thye guy's specs and then we can see if the card is at fault or not.

You can have two 8800GTX cards installed and 2142 will still have a FPS drop if you have only 1GB of RAM or a weak processor. I have a single 8800GTS and it runs BF2142, with everything maxed out, without even heating up. This 8800GTS, is literally twice as powerful as my two 6800GTs, in SLI, overclocked to peak in 3DMark06. When I crank it up it hits 10800 in 3DMark06.

Also, remember that the 8800 is designed for DX10 which is a completely different package than DX9. It places much moe of the load on the GPU thereby relieving the CPU of many rendering duties. They are incredibly powerful cards but DX10 will push them much harderthan DX9 ever could.

Merc
Modified Lian Li PC 7077A
Dual Watercooling Loops
Asus P5K Deluxe BIOS 0404
Core 2 Duo Q6600 (3600MHz@1.46v)
Max OC 4050MhHz at 1.65v
1 x XFX 8800GTX XXX Watercooled
2 GB Team Xtreme DDR2 800-PC6400
2 x 150gb WD in Raptors in RAID 0
1 x 640
Dublin_Gunner Mar 15, 2007, 01:31pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive?
Ray Wroten said:
Yea they pretty much bought the DX10 card, installed it, cranked every setting on max and expected it to run flawlessly well above 30fps in BF2142. When frames dropped below 10 they got p**sed. That is there first thought, after they settle down and figure things out they are content.
Personally I have 2x 7800GT's running BF2142 @ 1680x1050 4x Antialiasing with some settings on low and medium. Runs perfect @ 45+ FPS.


Some settnigs on Low and medium????

I have x1800xt 512, 1gb Ram, 3000+ @2.3 and run everything max 12x10, apart from medium textures.

Why?? 1gb ram. Only reason. If your friends only have 1gb ram, tell them to turn textures to medium. BF2/2142 arent coded to use the frame buffer efficiently, and call to system ram for the majority of textures.

Also, what DX10 cards do they have?? What IQ settings are they trying to use? If they have a GTS 320, and they're trying to play @16x12 with 16xAA & 16xHQ AF, they will have problems.

You need to be realistic, and the fact that the BF2/2142 engine isnt really all that GPU taxing, performance depends a lot on your memory / cpu

Lancool PC K62
Phenom II x3 @ 3.5Ghz
4GB DDR2-800
ASUS GTX570 DirectCU II
John Ingram Mar 15, 2007, 01:55pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive?

Leonard Overbeek Mar 16, 2007, 06:45am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive?
Merc said:

Also, remember that the 8800 is designed for DX10 which is a completely different package than DX9. It places much moe of the load on the GPU thereby relieving the CPU of many rendering duties. They are incredibly powerful cards but DX10 will push them much harderthan DX9 ever could.


Sorry, ive heard this reasoning since the geforce256 and DX7. Don't you think that after 3
iterations of directx that the cpu should by now only be doing AI and physics ? lol

Sorry but for me DX10 is more like Glide was for 3Dfx cards years gone by.

To add, If it wasn't for trade secrets, DX10 would be running on linux by now :)

Antec 550W TruePower 2
Asus A8N SLI Deluxe
AMD Athlon64 Dual Core 4200+
Seagate 160,120Gb PATA
Western Digital 160GB x 2 SATA Raid 0
512Mb x 2 400Mhz Ram
XFX Geforce 6800GT 256Mb
Merc Mar 16, 2007, 06:57am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive?
DX7,8 and 9 were all backwards compatible because they were built on the same framework. DX10 is new from the ground up , hence its lack of backward compatibility. At least that is what i have read, we'll have to see the benchmarks and independent reviews.

Merc
Modified Lian Li PC 7077A
Dual Watercooling Loops
Asus P5K Deluxe BIOS 0404
Core 2 Duo Q6600 (3600MHz@1.46v)
Max OC 4050MhHz at 1.65v
1 x XFX 8800GTX XXX Watercooled
2 GB Team Xtreme DDR2 800-PC6400
2 x 150gb WD in Raptors in RAID 0
1 x 640
Shadow_Ops_Airman1 Mar 16, 2007, 07:02am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive?
actually 98SE was capable of talking directly to the hardware, if im not mistaken it was NT versions of Windows that Utilized the HAL, or was GDI. I believe that DX10 will be supported in XP, just in a different way, sort of how WMP 11 is aswell. Considering MS wasnt ready for the OS themselves, Majority of people out there will not upgrade to Vista until at least 6 months have gone by, we have yet to pass 2 months.

AMD Athlon XP-M 2500+ (133x14= 1867MHz) (209x11= 2299MHz)
DFI LP NF2 Ultra-B (Hellfire 3EG Rev2)
Antec SX800, Neo HE 500, 4 Antec 8CM Fans
Thermalright SI-97 1 Antec Tricool 12CM Fan
CL SB XFi Xtreme Music
2x Barracuda HDs (250/400)
2x Samsung Write
Leonard Overbeek Mar 16, 2007, 07:19am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive?
Merc said:
DX7,8 and 9 were all backwards compatible because they were built on the same framework. DX10 is new from the ground up , hence its lack of backward compatibility. At least that is what i have read, we'll have to see the benchmarks and independent reviews.


That maybe true but remember that on its highest level DX10 is just another Programming Interface with hundreds of function calls. How the operating system and drivers implement
these functions is the real deal. In this regard theres no reason at all why vista dont have
a full implementation of DX9 but rather a 'emulation' via DX10

Remember how microsoft made it possible for win3.1 users to run 32 bit apps ? what did they do ? they supplied developers with the tools, in that case it was win32s(ubset).
What do you say ? Hows it possible to run 32 bit apps on a 16 bit operating system.
Well its true, with the right API you don't need to be operating system dependant.

Theres nothing technically stopping microsoft from implementing a DX10 subset in windows 98 for that matter....



Antec 550W TruePower 2
Asus A8N SLI Deluxe
AMD Athlon64 Dual Core 4200+
Seagate 160,120Gb PATA
Western Digital 160GB x 2 SATA Raid 0
512Mb x 2 400Mhz Ram
XFX Geforce 6800GT 256Mb
Merc Mar 16, 2007, 08:53am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive?

Merc
Modified Lian Li PC 7077A
Dual Watercooling Loops
Asus P5K Deluxe BIOS 0404
Core 2 Duo Q6600 (3600MHz@1.46v)
Max OC 4050MhHz at 1.65v
1 x XFX 8800GTX XXX Watercooled
2 GB Team Xtreme DDR2 800-PC6400
2 x 150gb WD in Raptors in RAID 0
1 x 640
Dublin_Gunner Mar 16, 2007, 09:05am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive?
Leonard Overbeek said:
Merc said:
DX7,8 and 9 were all backwards compatible because they were built on the same framework. DX10 is new from the ground up , hence its lack of backward compatibility. At least that is what i have read, we'll have to see the benchmarks and independent reviews.


That maybe true but remember that on its highest level DX10 is just another Programming Interface with hundreds of function calls. How the operating system and drivers implement
these functions is the real deal. In this regard theres no reason at all why vista dont have
a full implementation of DX9 but rather a 'emulation' via DX10

Remember how microsoft made it possible for win3.1 users to run 32 bit apps ? what did they do ? they supplied developers with the tools, in that case it was win32s(ubset).
What do you say ? Hows it possible to run 32 bit apps on a 16 bit operating system.
Well its true, with the right API you don't need to be operating system dependant.

Theres nothing technically stopping microsoft from implementing a DX10 subset in windows 98 for that matter....




You're right. But they would have to emulate DX10 functions via software in any OS apart from Vista.

So, if maybe you had an 8 core/processor machine, at around 3Ghz per core, it may be playable.

Yes, it is 'just' another interface, but you have to remember how the hardware deals with the fubctions in DX10 is vastly removed from earlier iterations of DX.

The majority of the data does not have to be processed by the CPU before heading off to the GPU, completely unlike earlier DX versions, where the CPU basically had to decode and suplly all of the geometry to the GPU before it could process & display it.

Lancool PC K62
Phenom II x3 @ 3.5Ghz
4GB DDR2-800
ASUS GTX570 DirectCU II
B Mar 16, 2007, 09:20am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive?
DublinGunner said:
The majority of the data does not have to be processed by the CPU before heading off to the GPU, completely unlike earlier DX versions, where the CPU basically had to decode and supply all of the geometry to the GPU before it could process & display it.


Does that mean less frequent CPU upgrades will be needed once we have DX 10 graphics cards? I have a feeling I know the answer...


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