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  Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive? 
 
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Adam Cook Aug 31, 2007, 08:17am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive?
DublinGunner said:
Sander Sassen said:
No reason? I see plenty of reason ;)

Best regards,



Nope, none whatsoever!

Maybe I've been lucky, but I dont have any problems or encounter any issues with Vista.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say I prefer it to XP, and dont ever see myself swapping back.

I have a dual boot, but havent booted into XP since installing Vista



Can anyone advise please. I am purchasing a laptop 2.2mhz dualcore. 2mb ram and geforce 8600m video card. I would like to play games and have the option of choosing either XP or Vista. Should I take a chance and go for vista even thought it is likely to be slower, but I will be able to play the latest Direct 10 games? What would you do?

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Dublin_Gunner Aug 31, 2007, 08:31am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive?
This really requires your own thread, as your query is off topic.

But in quick response, I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but you wont be playing any of the latest dx10 games with decent graphical settings on an 8600m

They will run alright, but you'll have to run the settings so low that the DX9 versions would look better.





Lancool PC K62
Phenom II x3 @ 3.5Ghz
4GB DDR2-800
ASUS GTX570 DirectCU II
igor vin Oct 25, 2007, 10:59am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive?
Bottom line is, if you have above average hardware ie:geforce 8800gt gpu, 4gig 800 ddr2 ram, amd 6000+(happens to be my system)you will get average gameplay with little or no improvement in graphics w/dx10 on Vista64 and that is with minimum services running to improve performance.With XP using same hardware you will have excellent gameplay with very high fps.
I have tried games such as Lost Planet,Shadowrun,Halo2,Bioshock and the choice is a no brainer, The performance benifits of XP far outweigh the very little graphics enhancements in Vista w/dx10. The only noticeable difference in graphics were the water effects in "Bioshock" oohh wow.I'm sure there might be a few other graphic enhancements, but if none of them stand out who really cares and yes I play Halo2 and Shadowrun on XP, I think it only took hackers 1 week to patch and I'm sure it will be the same with any game m$ tries to make a vista exclusive.There was a instance with Halo2 on level12(gravemind) where the program tried to load a block of data that exceeded the limits of XP and caused the game to crash, but a fix was quickly written to intercept any calls that would exceed the limts of XP and break the data size down.
I also use my system for extensive video authoring,3d modeling,and Audio Recording(Sonar,Pro Tools etc.) and have noticed a considerable performance drop with vista and these are areas where m$ claims vista to excel over XP.

Conclusion:
There will always be consumers that will buy into the hype and say "I like the way it looks" and those people are the people that buy broken down cars with new paint jobs.
m$ should concentrate on making a Fast Efficient Reliable OS that has more Compatibility with 3rd party Software/Hardware that consumers will buy because they want to, not because they have to! The only thing m$ is accomplishing by making software/hardware vista exclusive is forcing consumers to "piracy" which is readily available to the growing number of the computer savy.Bill Gates has created an empire that no longer has the peoples interest at heart and can only lead to it's demise.Hopefully Bill will get on track and keep m$ #1 for the right reasons.

CrAsHnBuRnXp Oct 25, 2007, 11:56am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive?
I say this over and over and over again. Yet it never seems to sink in. With every new OS that Microsoft releases, the FPS in games will be lower than its previous OS. FPS are faster in Win 2000 than in 98, FPS in 2000 is faster than XP, FPS in XP are faster than in Vista. Its an ongoing trend. So long as you still maintain a smooth gameplay experience, who really cares?

igor vin Oct 25, 2007, 01:57pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive?
So long as you still maintain a smooth gameplay experience, who really cares?


In order for the average user with average hardware to maintain smooth gameplay they need to lower all the graphics settings.You can't really compare XP and Vista to 98 and 2000. PC hardware and software from the 98,2000 era was not designed or intended for gaming.There is no reason why anyone should have to pay $1,400.00 for 2 Geforce 8800gt's to get the same performance of 1 on a XP system that supports the same generation of games that vista does.The fact of the matter is that vista is a resource Hog no matter how much fat you cut off of it.Vista to XP is like comparing Norton to Nod32. Dx10 is just a marketing ploy for people to buy into a garbage os. Vista was a bigger mistake than the windows millenium os. m$ knows that and needs every proprietary angle possible to sell it! Vista would have been a good system if m$ didn't try to make it hack proof with all the bloated security protocols.If a consumer wants a secure system let them pick what type of Firewall/Antivirus they want to use.m$ destroyed the system by trying to make a system that only runs signed software/drivers and tries to deny the use of pirated software.Hackers have the same knowledge and resources as m$ and will always find a counter measure, It is pointless for m$ to try to beet them.New laws need to be in place and enforced to stop the hacker/pirate community not Bill Gates.

Anyway to get back on point, I've read that Nvidia had problems implementing the "Gpu Memory Virtualization" aspect of dx10 in there drivers which was supposed to be a requirement to run dx10 and therefor m$ had to revise dx10 to make it optional, which would remove one of the main impediments linking dx10 to Vista.
Is this true? I don't know. As long as there are patches for future "dx10 only" games to run with dx9 I'll be happy. Xp is going to be supported till 2018 or something like that, so hopefully there will be a better os than Vista by then.

CrAsHnBuRnXp Oct 25, 2007, 08:11pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive?
igor vin said:
In order for the average user with average hardware to maintain smooth gameplay they need to lower all the graphics settings.You can't really compare XP and Vista to 98 and 2000. PC hardware and software from the 98,2000 era was not designed or intended for gaming.


I never said it was. I was talking about the loss in FPS between the OS's.


There is no reason why anyone should have to pay $1,400.00 for 2 Geforce 8800gt's to get the same performance of 1 on a XP system that supports the same generation of games that vista does.

The only time you need to shell out that much money is if A) you have the money to shell out in the first place or B) if you have a huge screen that you are trying to pull high/ultra settings out of with one card. Thats the only reason why SLi and Crossfire exist. Other than that, its bragging rights and a waste of money.

The fact of the matter is that vista is a resource Hog no matter how much fat you cut off of it.Vista to XP is like comparing Norton to Nod32. Dx10 is just a marketing ploy for people to buy into a garbage os.

I would like to to elaborate myself and the rest of the HWA community (including the ones who use Vista) on how you think that Vista is a garbage OS. Im willing to bet that when you were running Windows 2000, you said the same thing when XP was first released. Vista is going through teh same hard ships that XP went through. Windows Seven will do the same.

I have run Vista for close to a year now with no problems and a few incompatibilities here and there. Now Im not saying that everyone should be like me and not have any issues with the OS. Im not saying that. But the way everyone screams and cries over the OS is pathetic. I ran Vista on a single core Athlon 3200+ with 1GB of RAM just fine. Sure some games would studder and that made me get 2GB of RAM which had me running the OS flawlessly. So unless you have used the OS for a considerable amount of time, I wouldnt complain about the OS here as it wont do you a bit of good.

Vista was a bigger mistake than the windows millenium os. m$ knows that and needs every proprietary angle possible to sell it!

That line always makes me laugh whenever anyone ever says it. I want to know why you think that and how? Vista is in no way nor anywhere near the same ballpark as Windows ME and if you think otherwise, maybe you should spend a little more time with the OS.

Vista would have been a good system if m$ didn't try to make it hack proof with all the bloated security protocols.

So your saying you'd prefer to be hacked all the time? You'd prefer all 3xx some patches that XP has given over the coarse of 5 or so years? Id rather have the security than have someone hack me every time i take a breath.

.If a consumer wants a secure system let them pick what type of Firewall/Antivirus they want to use.

Last time I checked, I was able to use the Firewall and AV of my choice. When I was on 32-bit, I chose PC Tools Firewall, 64-bit, I will use Comodo when they get finished with their Version 3 at the end of the year. My AV is AVG Free.

m$ destroyed the system by trying to make a system that only runs signed software/drivers and tries to deny the use of pirated software.

Would you not do the same if you were in Bill's shoes? Would you not want people to buy your OS so it lines your pockets with money? Do you actually want to use pirated software? (I woudlnt answer that here)

Hackers have the same knowledge and resources as m$ and will always find a counter measure, It is pointless for m$ to try to beet them.New laws need to be in place and enforced to stop the hacker/pirate community not Bill Gates.

I agree. However, hackers themselves arent really exempt from any laws. When you "buy" Bill's OS, you only buy the rights to use it. You dont physically own it. If you dont agree with what he is doing with his software, dont use it. He has the right to do with it what he so desires.

Xp is going to be supported till 2018 or something like that, so hopefully there will be a better os than Vista by then.

Its 2014 I believe, but Windows codename Seven will be released before then with all the major changes/revisions/implementations that Vista was supposed to get. Microsoft has already stated that Vista is just a place holder and that Vista in itself wasnt the major OS. The next OS release will be.

I know I sound a bit rude and I apologize for that. I just hate it when people give this OS such a bad rap.

John Doe Oct 28, 2007, 03:53am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive?
Vista is defintly a garbage os, I ran Vista x64 for over 6 month, everything ran fine especially when I disabled superfetch, which thrashes your hard drive loading up all your ram with stuff it thinks you want to launch, and when you launch something thats not in superfetched already, it takes longer if superfetch hasn't already loaded everything into your ram. With the Crysis Single Player Demo On a AMD FX57, 2 GIG RAM CAS 2, 7900 GTX 512 Megs --- Vista x64 could run Crysis only on medium Specs with some lag, if I put it on high I was lucky to get .05 FPS yes .05 lol, I setup a dual but with XP x64, I can run Crysis on HIGH flawlessly. Someone should start a Vista boycott until they release directx 10 for XP. Also a note for Microsoft, Vista should have Options during the install process, like is this a Gaming Rig, Bussiness PC, Graphic Work Station ect... so that it can optimise itself for those purposes, these options should be available after install as well. Vista in my opion is complete garbage... 98se was great, XP was Great, XP x64 was great, Millenium was garbage, there is no reason Vista should have this much of a differnce when playing Crysis Period... BTW Vista with Superfetch re-enabled didn't help my Crysis FPS in Vista at all, it took longer for it to boot lol. Theres the proof on a dual boot system that Vista is a CPU and RAM HOG, and a Hard Drive Thrashing piece of garbage.

John Doe Oct 28, 2007, 03:56am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive?
BTW I think Vista is a Millenium all over again, its the stepping stone to there next os that I'm sure will be great. Millenium was a test bed for the cross over to XP in my opion again.

Shadow_Ops_Airman1 Oct 28, 2007, 04:01am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive?
John, I think there maybe another reason why vista doesnt run games aswell as it claimed it could, its the Fact that the GUI uses DX10 which in turn uses the Graphics Card for Most of its physics, (motions etc) thus putting a heavy load on it where XP doesnt do that, i blame Aero for the Crappy performance in games, i would suggest turning off Aero and using Classic/XP theme and see if that changes anything, if possible get Vista as tweaked as XP. Also a few Magazines Back i believe it was CPU mag or Maximum PC mag that did a review of World In Conflict DX10(Vista Vs DX9 (XP) on twin systems, well the DX10 detail didnt look much better than the DX9 version and there was a major performance hit with DX10 thus Vista, which XP DX9 had the performance advantage. This was a few months back.

AMD Athlon XP-M 2500+ (133x14= 1867MHz) (209x11= 2299MHz)
DFI LP NF2 Ultra-B (Hellfire 3EG Rev2)
Antec SX800, Neo HE 500, 4 Antec 8CM Fans
Thermalright SI-97 1 Antec Tricool 12CM Fan
CL SB XFi Xtreme Music
2x Barracuda HDs (250/400)
2x Samsung Write
Shadow_Ops_Airman1 Oct 28, 2007, 04:11am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: DirectX 10, no longer a Vista exclusive?
beyond that the Orange Box can take advantage of DX 10 cards advanced capabilities regardless if your running DX9C, its just the fact that a DX10 card is in the system that counts for that game.

AMD Athlon XP-M 2500+ (133x14= 1867MHz) (209x11= 2299MHz)
DFI LP NF2 Ultra-B (Hellfire 3EG Rev2)
Antec SX800, Neo HE 500, 4 Antec 8CM Fans
Thermalright SI-97 1 Antec Tricool 12CM Fan
CL SB XFi Xtreme Music
2x Barracuda HDs (250/400)
2x Samsung Write

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