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  Official US Presidential Race Thread 
 
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FordGT90Concept Jan 04, 2008, 11:54pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Official US Presidential Race Thread
Sean Costello said:
I dont think he means that in a derogatory way, he's just saying compared to the other canadaites that brag about being in the military for so long but never seeing combat and that McCaine being a POW for over 5 years in Vietnam almost dwarfs their military background.

I went to a townmeeting where he was speaking and he only said about a paragraph worth on the subject. He is very humbled on his military background (which is actually quite lengthy).

Edit: He also got a standing ovation at one of the earlier GOP debates when another candidate (can't remember which) brought up military background.

I also know he is very respected in the Senate and abroad as well but, as already pointed out, he does straight talk and it does sometimes get him in trouble.


There's a lot of people here that support Ron Paul. Locally, there isn't a single one. Weird demographic. XD

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Sean Costello Jan 05, 2008, 12:14am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Official US Presidential Race Thread
yeah i saw a video on his experience along with others in my Vietnam War class a few months ago.

______
Story of My Life- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c764JWVt5Fw
Chris McGee Jan 05, 2008, 12:16am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Official US Presidential Race Thread
A_Pickle said:

...I dunno. I guess I hear a lot of "Bush only served in the National Guard," which... to me, as a Guardsman... is almost offensive. I'm not trying to implicate you in trying to insult Bush (in that fashion, anyways -- he's certainly an insultable person in other manners).


I don't think that's an insult to guardsmen. More down to the fact that he managed to dodge the draft due to his daddys connections which got him into the national guard (which he never attended).

While John McCain and men like him were dying, Georgie boy was working on his drink problem at the taxpayers expense.

A_Pickle Jan 05, 2008, 01:39am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Official US Presidential Race Thread
Chris McGee
I don't think that's an insult to guardsmen. More down to the fact that he managed to dodge the draft due to his daddys connections which got him into the national guard (which he never attended).

While John McCain and men like him were dying, Georgie boy was working on his drink problem at the taxpayers expense.


Thank you for the visual aid on EXACTLY the type of comment I was expecting someone to say.

Actually, according to Bush's commanding officer at that time, he didn't have... um... any problem "attending." If he did, he would never have gotten a commission. If you don't think he attended, then I suppose his daddy had connections to Photoshop back in the day. He was promoted to First Lieutenant, with extreme praise from his commanding officer as an outstanding pilot.

Do. Your effing. Research.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush_military_service_controversy

I feel inclined to mention, you call Bush a "draft dodger," when Bush ACTUALLY SERVED IN THE MILITARY. Bill Clinton, on the other hand, never did serve in the military -- and he did his very best to AVOID the draft during that era.

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1996/candidates/democrat/clinto...raft.shtml

I'm a member of the Wyoming Air National Guard. Brothers and sisters in arms are dying over in Iraq, but I'm not. I suppose that makes me want to avoid war, huh? My father joined the Navy when he was drafted, and was deployed the the Mediterranean Sea on the USS America flying refueling jets for the F-4 Phantom fighters. I guess my dad was just working on one of his life's issues thanks to his "connections," too.

Chris McGee Jan 05, 2008, 08:48am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Official US Presidential Race Thread
OK, i'll accept your point about Bush (or at least save it for another thread ;)).

I'm trying to get how this works in my head. Each state votes for who they want to put forward for the presidential race and the winners from each party go into the big vote for the presidency, right?

What happens with the independents and the smaller parties like the libertarians? Do they have their own votes?

Beavis Khan Jan 05, 2008, 09:58am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Official US Presidential Race Thread
A_Pickle said:

I do like McCain's stance on the War in Iraq. :)


I don't like it, but I think it's the correct stance. We broke it, we're responsible for trying to fix it. IMHO we had no business going there in the first place in the way we did, but just pulling everyone out is only going to make things worse. Lots worse.

The other thing I like about McCain (that probably goes back to his Vietnam days) is his clear opposition to torture. If the country that purports to be the bastion of freedom in the world is sponsoring torture at the very highest levels of state, then we're not half the country we think we are.

____
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong."

- H.L. Mencken
FordGT90Concept Jan 05, 2008, 03:07pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Official US Presidential Race Thread
Exactly. The way I see it, Ron Paul and most of the Democrats are ready and willing to accept defeat. Personally, I don't want to see another Vietnam story in history books because not only does it look worse than being unpopular, it's also an invite to all those fanatics. People get discouraged if they see no progress. Because we haven't up and left yet, the most discouraged are the terrorist organizations. Sure, we're discouraged too but ultimately, who gives up last wins. If we succeed in Iraq, it will be hard for terrorists to convince people to commit suicide for whatever the cause because it doesn't work. That's the only message these fanatics will ever get and they won't get it by us leaving. It would basically move everyone back to square one in dealing with them (the power is returned to the fanatics). I will not give them the pleasure of considering themselves victorious. If that's the way we want to be, Iraq is only the first in many many similar battles to come. A mere tie is all it takes to keep a terrorist going.

We're not talking about a country here--we're talking about a populous that knows few international borders. Terrorists are not traditional enemies. They seek to destroy everything we value (e.g. democratic process, life, and family).

________________________
If I remember what I forgot, I have not forgotten it.
Sean Costello Jan 05, 2008, 03:30pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Official US Presidential Race Thread
I agree with you Ford, i dont plan on voting for anyone who wants to pull out and give out dates they expect things done by, its war you cant make deadlines in war (for the most part).

______
Story of My Life- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c764JWVt5Fw
FordGT90Concept Jan 07, 2008, 12:01am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Official US Presidential Race Thread
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/06/nh.poll/index.html

I think that pretty much seals the deal. Obama is most likely to win the Democratic caucuses.

Republican side is still pretty much up for grabs. Huckabee is up front, Romney is second, and we can't count McCain or Thompson out yet.

________________________
If I remember what I forgot, I have not forgotten it.
Jan 07, 2008, 01:24am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Official US Presidential Race Thread

FordGT90Concept Jan 07, 2008, 01:51am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Official US Presidential Race Thread
I'm thinking that's not very accurate. The Republican side looks to be far more accurate than the Democratic side but neither are close.

It may not be accurate because of how early it is too. A lot can change in just a few days time (e.g. because of Obama's strength in Iowa, he boomed in New Hampshire).

________________________
If I remember what I forgot, I have not forgotten it.
Bungle Jan 07, 2008, 12:15pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Official US Presidential Race Thread
I really hope John McCain does not get the Republican nomination, I cannot in good conscience support a man who on two separate occasions has pushed for amnesty for illegal aliens and giving the sovereignty of the US to Mexico.

McCain is a liberal with a "R" in front of his name.

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Sean Costello Jan 07, 2008, 03:20pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Official US Presidential Race Thread
pretty much, im a Romney man my self.

______
Story of My Life- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c764JWVt5Fw
FordGT90Concept Jan 07, 2008, 03:46pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Official US Presidential Race Thread
Jim H said:
I really hope John McCain does not get the Republican nomination, I cannot in good conscience support a man who on two separate occasions has pushed for amnesty for illegal aliens and giving the sovereignty of the US to Mexico.

He's been misquoted on that numerous times. Basically, if illegal immigrants are eligible for citizenship, he wants to allow them to stay. If they aren't eligible, they will be deported and they cannot return until they are eligible. He wants to make it so that illegals that have been in the states for 20+ years to be able to stay because, most likely, they had children in the USA that are citizens. Deporting a parent of legalized citizens is not very good move socially and ethically.

Anyway, he explains it better than I do. The netcast and transcripts are available here:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22487036


Personally, I agree with McCain in that we need to seal the borders first. Once we have done that, we have to find a way to sort the remaining mess. The important thing here is to do something and quit squabbling about it. I really don't care what approach is used so long as it is taken care of sooner rather than later.

________________________
If I remember what I forgot, I have not forgotten it.
Bungle Jan 07, 2008, 05:01pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Official US Presidential Race Thread

Core i7 4770K @ 4.4GHz | Corsair H110 | Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD5H | 32GB 1866MHz Corsair Vengeance
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Corsair AX1200 PSU | Corsair 650D | Windows 7 Ultimate x64
FordGT90Concept Jan 07, 2008, 11:31pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Official US Presidential Race Thread

________________________
If I remember what I forgot, I have not forgotten it.
Sean Costello Jan 07, 2008, 11:44pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Official US Presidential Race Thread
less that 16 minutes till the New Hampshire Primaries start

______
Story of My Life- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c764JWVt5Fw
john albrich Jan 08, 2008, 06:32am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Official US Presidential Race Thread
FordGT90Concept said:
...How do you propose to take care of the illegal immigrant situation without destroying the economy then?...


One approach might be to recoup repatriation costs from the country of origin. That might give that country an incentive to discourage illegal entry into the US, rather than encouraging it as seems to be occurring in some countries.

In reality however, the costs probably wouldn't actually be recouped because trade offsets, military assistance, energy assistance, and aid packages would be used to surrepticiously reimburse those countries for the reimbursements to ensure the leaders won't make more than a standard "pro forma" complaint about it.

Example: for every citizen of country X repatriated to that country, a one million dollar transaction could be executed with the World Bank to transfer assets from country X to the US account. That one million could be used to offset the costs of medical care for remaining illegal aliens in the US, to improve border physical security, help employers pay for faster employee background checks, and so on.

Like I said, it won't happen, but it is one theoretical tool.

A_Pickle Jan 08, 2008, 10:31am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Official US Presidential Race Thread
I'd imagine that would foster some negativity in the relationship with that country.

I don't like amnesty, but... really. Are you kidding? Deport 20 million people? That's... laughable. I don't think any group/organization/country has EVER moved anywhere NEAR that volume of people in any speedy amount of time. Given that we wouldn't just up and find all 20 million illegals overnight and pack them into every transport we could muster, it'd also be a costly, long witch hunt. How do you propose we find 20 million (and growing) illegal immigrants that are entrenched into society as-is?

You don't. It'd be costly and it'd be a Gestapo-like witch hunt. We don't need more costly endeavors here. You're right: It's not fair that 20 million people get a better life because they went around the system and got here -- but that's reality in this case. There is NO way we could POSSIBLY get them all out, especially given the financial savings that would go to this country if we simply gave them amnesty.

You build a wall across the southern border and institute an amnesty program after that, legalizing those who're here and basically clearing the slate and letting us start new. Maybe decrease the annual cutoff of legal immigrants to make up for the 20 million that are now "legal," but otherwise... that's how you solve that problem. It's very simple.

Bungle Jan 08, 2008, 12:34pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Official US Presidential Race Thread
You don't have to resort to gestapo tactics to rid youself of this problem, all you need to do is start enforcing the laws that we have. We need eligibility to work verification, we need to verify that a SSN being used is only being used by the person to whom it is assigned, etc.

Implement these kinds of policies and the illegals will "self deport" because they will not be able to work, get bank accounts, apply for credit, use social services, drive, etc.

Core i7 4770K @ 4.4GHz | Corsair H110 | Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD5H | 32GB 1866MHz Corsair Vengeance
2x EVGA GTX 780 SLI | 256GB OCZ Vector SSD | 4TB Hitachi 7K4000
Corsair AX1200 PSU | Corsair 650D | Windows 7 Ultimate x64

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