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  Stepping down as chief moderator... 
 
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Gerritt Feb 12, 2008, 10:22pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Stepping down as chief moderator...
WTFO!
Would any of the administrators or remaining moderators care to indicate to the rest of the population as to what caused this dissatisfaction on the moderator level?

Perhaps we, the users, may have some input as to the policies that led to this action?

I've had my pee-pee smacked on several occasions over a period of several years, I've seen moderators come and go, but never something like this. Is HWA changing something in its core to bring about these massive changes?

I never knew that ANYONE at HWA had a PAID possition!!!! Wow! I guess when you've got over 1K users at any point in time, that maybe you'd need that, even if the registered users never went beyond about 20.

Hang in there folks, it's going to be a bumpy ride!

You to you former Moderators!

Gerritt

Ad Astra Per Aspera
(A rough road leads to the Stars)
We all know what we know, and everyone else knows we are wrong.
System Specifications in BIO
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Hans Moleman Feb 14, 2008, 08:46pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Stepping down as chief moderator...
In a less wordy manner, I too am curious as to the issue that caused these resignations. Is there a thread where this is discussed?

AMD Athlon64 X2 3800+
ABit AN8 Ultra nForce4 Ultra Chipset
MSI 9800GT OC 512MB
CORSAIR ValueSelect 2GB (2 x 1 GB) DDR 400
Antec 500W PSU
Bitmap Feb 14, 2008, 09:03pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Stepping down as chief moderator...
There was, but it was deleted by Sander.

http://www.bobbyphillipps.com/hwa/index.htm

There's the dump if it, IP addresses removed.

Let it serve as a documentation of why Michael and Crash left. Don't hide history.

________
"None of you understand. I'm not locked up in here with you. YOU'RE locked up in here with ME." - Walter Kovacs, A.K.A. Rorschach.
Chris McNally Feb 14, 2008, 09:09pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Stepping down as chief moderator...
DublinGunner said:
Obviously, but there are no mods left, correct?


Good Lord - I know I haven't actively posted on HWA much recently (real life intruding - you know how it is) but it seems I've been completely forgotten.....sniff...... :(

Regards,

Chris McNally

Moderator - Hardware Analysis
E-mail: chris@hardwareanalysis.com
Adam Kolak Feb 14, 2008, 09:11pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Stepping down as chief moderator...
Chris McNally said:
DublinGunner said:
Obviously, but there are no mods left, correct?


Good Lord - I know I haven't actively posted on HWA much recently (real life intruding - you know how it is) but it seems I've been completely forgotten.....sniff...... :(

Yes, I'm still here too, so I'm not sure why Dublin thinks there is no moderators left.

Adam Kolak
Moderator, Hardware Analysis
adam@hardwareanalysis.com
DFI LP P35-T2RS | Xeon Quad @ 3.2Ghz | 4GB DDR2-1000 | 8800GT 512MB | See Profile
Hans Moleman Feb 14, 2008, 11:47pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Stepping down as chief moderator...
Bobby said:
There was, but it was deleted by Sander.

http://www.bobbyphillipps.com/hwa/index.htm

There's the dump if it, IP addresses removed.

Let it serve as a documentation of why Michael and Crash left. Don't hide history.


Thanks for the link Bobby. Now it all makes sense.

AMD Athlon64 X2 3800+
ABit AN8 Ultra nForce4 Ultra Chipset
MSI 9800GT OC 512MB
CORSAIR ValueSelect 2GB (2 x 1 GB) DDR 400
Antec 500W PSU
Jay J Feb 15, 2008, 03:22pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Stepping down as chief moderator...
To Crash and Michael.

Ive known you guys for awhile now and im sure you had ur reasons so please stay in touch with HWA. I know I wasnt posting alot for the past few years. had a few more kids and dealing with cronic back pain between the meds and injections I have im not always at the pc but now that im doing ok im around again. its sad to see you 2 leave as in ur rolls on HWA but knowing youll be around here somewhere is good. and Michael ty again for the gmail invite from many years ago now. (when thats the only way to get an account).

To other members and mods/admins just relax and everything will be as it always has been a helpful community for people to come and get help, gossip, flame and w/e else lol.

I was glad when I joined this site many years ago now and still glad to be around.

everyone take care.

BB'
Jay

PC specs in profile.
Gerritt Feb 16, 2008, 04:47pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Stepping down as chief moderator...
Bobby said:
There was, but it was deleted by Sander.

http://www.bobbyphillipps.com/hwa/index.htm

There's the dump if it, IP addresses removed.

Let it serve as a documentation of why Michael and Crash left. Don't hide history.


Bobby, I read the entire archive.
To you and your fellow disenfranchised moderators I say the following:
1. Sander, upon responding to the thread within a day of it's origination, agreed that you had SOME legitimate points.
2. It is the tone, language and personal nature of the postings that were in violation of the FUP that should have closed the topic way before even Sander responded.
3. The fact that the moderators not only allowed the thread to continue, but were in and of themselves guilty of violating the FUP was grounds enough for the tread being locked or deleted, but it stayed in place for at least another 24 hours.

These are not the actions of an Autocrat, or a censor, but someone that was trying to, admittedly after the fact, defuse a situation. Though Sander did give some leaway in discussion points, your viewpoint and the beligerent tone of your postings did not change, even after the offering to return to the table. This is NOT how you negotiate. It is a give and take world, and most times no one wins, they compromise.

Does Sander need to be more proactive, or reactive to his staff? Mayhap.
But given the level of animosity and the public nature of the venting on his dime so to speak, you are lucky! 99.9% of business owners in the world would have fired you all for gross insubordination, and damn the cost!

You don't change a company by trying to fire the boss! You accomplish change through getting the client to request change.

You did attempt a coup/mutiny, and even though these can accomplish some change in the longterm, for the most part the mutineers are still hanged.
The wise in this world recognize that it is not black or white, but an infinate level of shades of gray. I believe that all involved in this could learn from that.

My best regards to all,

Gerritt

Ad Astra Per Aspera
(A rough road leads to the Stars)
We all know what we know, and everyone else knows we are wrong.
System Specifications in BIO
Hans Moleman Feb 16, 2008, 06:59pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Stepping down as chief moderator...
I read the thread in its entirety as well. I don't think anyone was trying to start a coup or mutiny. Since Sander owns the site and server he is truly the only one who independently has the power to do anything. Nobody else can force any kind of change without him allowing it.

People were asking for him to be more attentive and promote more positive changes in the server. Their method of doing so was less than tactful, but their goal wasn't a bad one. Unfortunately, when people keep quiet for too long, the message gets laced with sarcasm by the time they say something. Since the mods are not paid employees (aside from the Chief Mod), I don't think bringing up how employees are fired for insubordination is relevant. Good mods are hard to find.

I don't think it's all that relevant whether or not it violates the FUP. Sander himself has violated the FUP on the front page by promoting piracy and made it abundantly clear that the thread will not be deleted and he repeatedly unlocked it when other mods locked it down. I'm not going to start a fight over that as it's in the past, but it set a certain precedent.

I'm not going to bother taking a side on a topic that's already been deleted. I just think it was wrong to delete the topic. It should have simply been locked.

AMD Athlon64 X2 3800+
ABit AN8 Ultra nForce4 Ultra Chipset
MSI 9800GT OC 512MB
CORSAIR ValueSelect 2GB (2 x 1 GB) DDR 400
Antec 500W PSU
Gerritt Feb 16, 2008, 07:51pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Stepping down as chief moderator...
Hans Moleman said:
I read the thread in its entirety as well. I don't think anyone was trying to start a coup or mutiny. Since Sander owns the site and server he is truly the only one who independently has the power to do anything. Nobody else can force any kind of change without him allowing it.

People were asking for him to be more attentive and promote more positive changes in the server. Their method of doing so was less than tactful, but their goal wasn't a bad one. Unfortunately, when people keep quiet for too long, the message gets laced with sarcasm by the time they say something. Since the mods are not paid employees (aside from the Chief Mod), I don't think bringing up how employees are fired for insubordination is relevant. Good mods are hard to find.

I don't think it's all that relevant whether or not it violates the FUP. Sander himself has violated the FUP on the front page by promoting piracy and made it abundantly clear that the thread will not be deleted and he repeatedly unlocked it when other mods locked it down. I'm not going to start a fight over that as it's in the past, but it set a certain precedent.

I'm not going to bother taking a side on a topic that's already been deleted. I just think it was wrong to delete the topic. It should have simply been locked.


Hans, but you are taking sides (at least based upon my reading of your post).
I don't see anywhere in the this entire thread that Sander violated the FUP. I can see several times when the "Moderators" did. The whole Crysis Piracy issue has been discussed and Sander responded to that thread at that point in time. I don't agree with his arguments then on that issue, but at no time did he trash his staff. For a owner and his staff to disagree on an external issue is different from the staff calling names on the owner. The community/client base have the right to call him out, but I don't recall this level of viterol even on that occasion.
Hes' allowed the link to stay, that says something.
I do commencerate with the moderators, I do not condone the language that they used, nor their inability to moderate thier own behaviour upon being offered negotiation.
Sander publicly offered to move, and the offer was rejected.
This is my reading.
I appologize if it does not match your own.
I'm not trying to antagonize anyone.
I'm only trying to recognize what happened, and why. With the goal of stopping history from repeating itself.

Gerritt

Ad Astra Per Aspera
(A rough road leads to the Stars)
We all know what we know, and everyone else knows we are wrong.
System Specifications in BIO
mothow Feb 16, 2008, 08:56pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Stepping down as chief moderator...
Chris i havent forgotten you

ASRock Z97 Extreme 4 / i7 4790K / Corsair H80i / 4x4GB Crucial Ballistix Smart Tracer DDR3 1600 / 1TB Western Digital Caviar Black / 240GB Mushkin Chronos Deluxe SSD / 2x Evga GTX 670 FTW 2GB in SLI / Sound Blaster Recon3D Fatal1ty / Corsair HX1000w
bossa ritchie Feb 16, 2008, 09:22pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Stepping down as chief moderator...

Gerritt Feb 16, 2008, 10:03pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Stepping down as chief moderator...
Bossa,
I hate being in the position of being the appologist for Sander, but here I am, doing so once again.

What they were saying may have some validity, but the way they said it is wrong. If any of us (the clients) had attempted to do so, the moderators would have warned us, or shut us down; if we'd tried to say the same thing in the same way...the FUD rules.

How many of the average clients here are looking for audiophile information? I don't know. Based upon the new forum threads, there isn't a whole lot of interest in Class A, A+B, or D analog amps.

Mayhap Sander has moved away from the PC market into a more restrictive subset, mayhap he's been busy attempting to find the best analog amplifier available to go along with the highest end speakers. Even if he has, he's continued to keep this site up, at his expense.

Is this the best thing for the HWA clientelle? I don't think so; but at the same time, I don't see a whole lot of interest in purchasing it from Sander.

We can leave in droves for another site, not yet to be identified, or we, the users can continue to make this the stop for anyone looking for help/knowledge.

Does the average user want Netflix? Probably not, but you pay the bills and make the money any way you can.

Lets keep something straight, both were wrong, but there still exist a good reason for us to try to make this site work.

Gerritt

Ad Astra Per Aspera
(A rough road leads to the Stars)
We all know what we know, and everyone else knows we are wrong.
System Specifications in BIO
Gerritt Feb 16, 2008, 10:09pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Stepping down as chief moderator...
I'm not trying to shoot anyone down, nor am I attempting to take sides.
I think both were wrong, but I can see what happened, mayhap better given my many years of experience.
A two or three day meltdown doesn't start on the first day of the meltdown, but the final day isn't due only to the boss.
Get a grip, EVERYONE!
No one in this argument is without flaw, or fault. Including myself.
Can we go forward understanding that issues exist between us?
If we can, then that says that this is a mature community.

Gerritt

Ad Astra Per Aspera
(A rough road leads to the Stars)
We all know what we know, and everyone else knows we are wrong.
System Specifications in BIO
Scumbag Blues Feb 16, 2008, 10:29pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Stepping down as chief moderator...
Gerritt said:
I'm not trying to shoot anyone down, nor am I attempting to take sides.
I think both were wrong, but I can see what happened, mayhap better given my many years of experience.
A two or three day meltdown doesn't start on the first day of the meltdown, but the final day isn't due only to the boss.
Get a grip, EVERYONE!
No one in this argument is without flaw, or fault. Including myself.
Can we go forward understanding that issues exist between us?
If we can, then that says that this is a mature community.

Gerritt


To be fair, you are the one who kind of revived not one, but three, threads on this topic with the same post going over what you think happened. First off, this issue runs deeper than that simple topic. Secondly, leave this topic alone. I don't want to hear what you "think" might have happened or attempt at clearing up any issues. Many people have done so beforehand, I don't need to hear it once again.

However, I do agree that we should move on and stop discussing about this topic. Doing that will truly be an exhibit of maturity which will hopefully be displayed by the community.

~

Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz | Gigabyte P67A-UD4 | G.Skill Ripjaws DDR3-1600 4GB | XFX Radeon HD 6950
Gerritt Feb 16, 2008, 10:52pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Stepping down as chief moderator...
Not sure why that last double posted, I'm sure I only hit <POST> once.
Maybe a single post wasn't angry enough.

Gerritt

Ad Astra Per Aspera
(A rough road leads to the Stars)
We all know what we know, and everyone else knows we are wrong.
System Specifications in BIO
Gerritt Feb 16, 2008, 10:56pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Stepping down as chief moderator...
So, three of my post just disappeared.
I "revived" these threads after minutes, or hours, not days, months or years.
I sent a private email to you, yet you continue to post publicly. Who's carrying on the thread?

Gerritt

Ad Astra Per Aspera
(A rough road leads to the Stars)
We all know what we know, and everyone else knows we are wrong.
System Specifications in BIO
Adam Kolak Feb 16, 2008, 11:00pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Stepping down as chief moderator...
This thread has gotten out of control, and it has turned into a rumor mill. To prevent the spread of rumors about why a few former fellow moderators left, this thread will be locked. Please do not pretend that you know why they left, because most of you really do not fully understand the situation.

Adam Kolak
Moderator, Hardware Analysis
adam@hardwareanalysis.com
DFI LP P35-T2RS | Xeon Quad @ 3.2Ghz | 4GB DDR2-1000 | 8800GT 512MB | See Profile

This thread has been locked by forum moderators and no further posts are allowed. This topic has been recently discussed <here>. Please visit that thread for an answer to your question or to continue discussion.

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