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  Re: Global warming, fact or farce? 
 
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Gerritt Mar 26, 2008, 11:44pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Global warming, fact or farce?
OK. So is global warming a fact? Yes
Is human population, and thier needs accelerating the warming. Yes.
At some point, mother earth will mitagate the warming, however, if human beings will still be around is something of differing oppinion.
Everyone wants to point out that global warming and cooling are natural cycles.
There is no scientifically supportable evidence that humans have not contributed to this cycle, insofar as contributing towards, or minimizing the effects.
One thing we can ALL recognize, is that agriculture has lead to a huge increase in population, and the increase in population has caused a major detriment to overall soil retention. Now given the present level of human population, that being six billion persons plus, that humans have never before exhibited this level of impact on our environment.
All hail the cockroach, the meek that will enherit what we leave behind.

Gerritt

Ad Astra Per Aspera
(A rough road leads to the Stars)
We all know what we know, and everyone else knows we are wrong.
System Specifications in BIO
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Mike Private Mar 27, 2008, 02:11am EDT Report Abuse
>> DISGRACE
Either the writer of this article is un-educated, plain stupid or trying to create more interest in his forum... either way it's almost a waist of time trying to convince someone who say things like he does...

Get knowledgeable on the facts before trying to convince others!

So totally irrisponsible! Think about what you say man... you have an influence on many ppl!

dark41 Mar 27, 2008, 02:33am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Global warming, fact or farce?
I'm kind of with Sander on this, although the politicians in the USA tend to steer completely clear of this topic rather than dwell on it. It's the ex-politicians in the USA who seem to have a handle on the situation (probably because they're not busy figuring out how to lie to people without getting caught 24/7 anymore).

I only plan on being on this planet for another 30-40 years. After that, I couldn't care less if it's inhabitable by human beings or not. Since I'll be dead, I won't know/care if my children/grand children have a planet or a life anymore anyway. And I justify my beliefs by saying there's not enough scientific data in the world to change my mind now, nor could there possibly be by the time I die. I understand the data that coincides with my wants, and think everything to the contrary must be total bs.

Some other idiot can figure out how to save the planet because it's obvious that I'm not smart enough to fathom that it can be done, let alone figure out how to do it. :)

On a serious note, I voted for Al Gore and would do so again in a heart beat. :)

EX38-DS5
E8500@4.0GHz (445x9, 1.40v) TRUE Black
Corsair HX620W
2x2gb Kingston HyperX 9600
HIS IceQ4 HD4850
2X1TB F1s (RAID 0) XP Pro/Win7 Ult 64
Auzen X-Fi Prelude 7.1
Cambridge Soundworks 500w 5.1
G5, Antec 1200
dark41 Mar 27, 2008, 02:59am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Global warming, fact or farce?
BTW, I watched a show on TV yesterday where they showed an electric car in Australia that is expected to be on the market in 1 year for $39,000. It gets 100km per battery charge, does 0-100kmh in 7.7 seconds, and will do 120kmh.

Where the gasoline/petrol car costs whatever current gasoline prices are in your area per 100km, the electric car charge costs $2.50AUD.

They showed all the parts on a gasoline/petrol engine that need replacing during servicing and compared it to the 1 part on the electric car.

So over a few years the electric car makes up for its price and then some with service charges and gasoline.

Also, keep in mind that GM produced a very nice electric car a few years ago. Google up the EV1 if you care to find out about it. It was pulled off the market for no apparent reason and many owners were quite unhappy that they could no longer renew their leases. GM crushed the remaining cars rather than sell or lease them, and then went a step further and bought up the battery company and disposed of that too. Had GM not bought out the battery company, the Australian electric car would already be on the market today, but they were forced to find another supplier which slowed things down drastically (wanted someone who couldn't be bought out).

Point is, don't kid yourself that we're years away from alternatives to gasoline powered engines. Big business, money, and our fear of change are the only things holding us back. :)

EX38-DS5
E8500@4.0GHz (445x9, 1.40v) TRUE Black
Corsair HX620W
2x2gb Kingston HyperX 9600
HIS IceQ4 HD4850
2X1TB F1s (RAID 0) XP Pro/Win7 Ult 64
Auzen X-Fi Prelude 7.1
Cambridge Soundworks 500w 5.1
G5, Antec 1200
A_Pickle Mar 27, 2008, 05:34am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Global warming, fact or farce?
It'd be nice if they, instead of making an electric sports car for $40,000... made a normal sedan for like $20,000.

Do I think global warming is happening? Yes.

Do I think humans are totally responsible? No.

Do I think we can and should clean up our act? Yes.

Do I hate people who need penis-proving F-350's just to f**king drive around town? YES. UGH. That happens SO much here, and I'm sure they've needed that excellent 15 MPG empty.

Ugh.

Surfernaut Mar 27, 2008, 07:45am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Global warming, fact or farce?
Let's all work towards inventing a new source of clean energy.

Mass produce it (Zero Point) to replace all fossil fuels.

Then we will see if there's a sharp decline in carbon levels.

There are efforts being made as we converse towards free power.

Richard Clifford Mar 27, 2008, 08:47am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Global warming, fact or farce?
globalwarmingisafarce.com raises 7 points, lets take a closer look:

1) The oceans are a CO2 dump - But have you read the recent reports suggesting that they have reached saturation? What does your exhaust pipe do now?

2) As CO2 rises vegetation becomes more active - yes if more water is available but we are going to cut down more trees to build the houses for the increasing population not to mention the wood chips to make the paper that our computers cannot do without.

3) Feedback mechanisms control the CO2 in the atmosphere and will continue to work.. - The Ice Cores show the temperature and CO2 levels for the past 600,000 years. They show correlation in levels and ice ages capable of killing millions today. But the last 11,000 years shows a much smaller variation. This includes the little ice age and the medieval warming which had only a minor effect. Why was this so? It has been suggested that the only other cause was man, he started farming. While this cannot be proved it could be a combination of man's farming and forest development that did the trick.

4) It has been much warmer and colder over the course of geologic history. - Yes but population levels were much lower and the tropical areas would have had a better climate. If you go back over 50 million years when the CO2 rose to over 1000 ppm there were 5 extermination events.....

5) Global Warming not a bad thing...- If we continue to pump CO2 into the atmosphere to levels well above what has existed for 600,000 years, you must expect greater warming than existed in the medieval warm period and with the seas saturated in CO2 you would get less fish than we do today.

6) Melting an ice cube in a glass of water - well of course there is no change in level but we are talking about the 2 miles of ice sitting on Greenland and the South Pole, this will raise the level of the seas. This may take a long time but a more immediate cause of concern is the reducing Glaciers will result in less water in India, for example, and the death of millions.

7) Encourages everyone to check out http://www.globalwarmingisafarce.com but you might prefer my little amateur effort: http://www.users.on.net/rmc/sustainablefutures.htm which points out that are not only Global Warming but also Over Population, Peak Oil and Financial Crash.

Stephen Grinwis Mar 27, 2008, 11:37am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Global warming, fact or farce?
Richard Clifford said:
globalwarmingisafarce.com raises 7 points, lets take a closer look:

1) The oceans are a CO2 dump - But have you read the recent reports suggesting that they have reached saturation? What does your exhaust pipe do now?


o'rly? The research i've seen suggests that the oceans at depth which hold the most CO2 have yet to take on additional CO2 because it takes a good long time to difuse a couple million tons of CO2 through a 1000 feet of water. Saturation? not even close


2) As CO2 rises vegetation becomes more active - yes if more water is available but we are going to cut down more trees to build the houses for the increasing population not to mention the wood chips to make the paper that our computers cannot do without.


Because clearly, all trees are being cut down continuously all the time, amirite?

3) Feedback mechanisms control the CO2 in the atmosphere and will continue to work.. - The Ice Cores show the temperature and CO2 levels for the past 600,000 years. They show correlation in levels and ice ages capable of killing millions today. But the last 11,000 years shows a much smaller variation. This includes the little ice age and the medieval warming which had only a minor effect. Why was this so? It has been suggested that the only other cause was man, he started farming. While this cannot be proved it could be a combination of man's farming and forest development that did the trick.



That there has been stable weather conditions in the last hour does not indicate that the onset of rain is catastrophic. Similarly, that i wake up in the morning, and then the sun comes up does not prove that the sun rises when I do. correlation does not prove causality. In fact if you look at the CO2 and temperature records, you will find that they are linked, yes. What you will also find is that sometimes, in the records, the CO2 levels rose AFTER the temperature rose. This proves that CO2 is not the only thing capable of producing global warming, contrary to popular belief.


4) It has been much warmer and colder over the course of geologic history. - Yes but population levels were much lower and the tropical areas would have had a better climate. If you go back over 50 million years when the CO2 rose to over 1000 ppm there were 5 extermination events.....


At this period of time, wasn't the south pole also a tropical climate? And yet the world didn't end? Hrm.. Food for thought.


5) Global Warming not a bad thing...- If we continue to pump CO2 into the atmosphere to levels well above what has existed for 600,000 years, you must expect greater warming than existed in the medieval warm period and with the seas saturated in CO2 you would get less fish than we do today.



As I've already mentioned, correlation doesn't prove causality. Look at the IPCC reports, the predict worst case forecasts of a rise in global temperatures of 3.4 degrees F, with most of the warming occurring at night, and in the colder regions. That sounds rather pleasant to me to be honest.


6) Melting an ice cube in a glass of water - well of course there is no change in level but we are talking about the 2 miles of ice sitting on Greenland and the South Pole, this will raise the level of the seas. This may take a long time but a more immediate cause of concern is the reducing Glaciers will result in less water in India, for example, and the death of millions.


Truthfully, i was unaware of the Greenland / South Pole issue, however, following the IPCC reports once again, the predicted rise in sea levels is 2 inches per decade. Hardly catastrophic, although it will be necessary, especially in low lying areas to build higher dams i suppose. A big problem with the sea level issue is that it becomes very difficult to determine if the ocean levels is going up, or the land level is going down (plate tectonics anyone?). There was an island in the pacific screaming blue murder at us because the sea was rising, and we were going to kill them all. Turns out their island is a volcano and is sinking into the sea, not the other way around.


7) Encourages everyone to check out http://www.globalwarmingisafarce.com but you might prefer my little amateur effort: http://www.users.on.net/rmc/sustainablefutures.htm which points out that are not only Global Warming but also Over Population, Peak Oil and Financial Crash.


Uhh... dude? that's not my website. It does however contain links to the website, one of interest is a page with catalogs the endorsement of 19 000 scientists who do not sign off on the global warming propaganda.

Beavis Khan Mar 27, 2008, 11:49am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Global warming, fact or farce?
A_Pickle said:
Do I hate people who need penis-proving F-350's just to f**king drive around town? YES. UGH. That happens SO much here, and I'm sure they've needed that excellent 15 MPG empty.


Pickle, why do you hate men with small penises? Are they not entitled to wave around their prosthetic phallus? NO, says the man in Washington, your wang harms the rest of the world!

/Bioshock

____
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong."

- H.L. Mencken
FordGT90Concept Mar 27, 2008, 12:41pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Global warming, fact or farce?
With rapidly climbing fuel prices, the people who don't have an F-350 for a good reason won't be able to afford to run them in the next few years. The same goes for most large American vehicles.

________________________
If I remember what I forgot, I have not forgotten it.
TKD TKD Mar 27, 2008, 01:39pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Global warming, fact or farce?
I agree with the sentiments in the article. On many issues, there is a certain amount of fatigue when dealing with people who are too strident.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to have cleaner air, water, soil, reduce dependency on foreign sources of energy and so on but just do it for the sake of clean air,water, etc. and stop trying to tell me that Manhatten is going to be under 12 feet of frigging water if I don't drive a Prius and use mercury filled halogen bulbs in my house.

************************************************************************************

pie
Bitmap Mar 27, 2008, 02:23pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Global warming, fact or farce?
CrAsHnBuRnXp said:
Gllobal warming is not somethign Sander needs to write about...why not write about something in technology, computers, electronics, audio, the internet, but global warming? its f**king "HARDWARE ANALYSIS" not "EARTH ANALYSIS". ;)

L. O. L.

________
"None of you understand. I'm not locked up in here with you. YOU'RE locked up in here with ME." - Walter Kovacs, A.K.A. Rorschach.
A_Pickle Mar 27, 2008, 06:42pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Global warming, fact or farce?
FordGT90Concept
With rapidly climbing fuel prices, the people who don't have an F-350 for a good reason won't be able to afford to run them in the next few years. The same goes for most large American vehicles.


And only in this, can I take solace. :D

Suspended User Mar 27, 2008, 09:26pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Global warming, fact or farce?
You know, if Hardware Analysis had inverted colours it would be far more energy efficient.

:)


The end is inevitable, and prolonging the inevitable is a waste of time, seeing as our Ozone Layer is screweed and our kids ( in NZ anyway ) in 30 years time will be burnt in 2 minutes standing in the sun.

If you could feel NZ sun compared to that of the rest of the world, it is horribly bad. That being because the Ozone Layer is directly above us.

Gerritt Mar 28, 2008, 07:53am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Global warming, fact or farce?
GACK,
I can't breath anymore.
I am sick and tired of this "debate".
CAN WE MAKE A CHANGE?
Total Carbon Footprint and all?
Yeh, I think we can.
So instead of arguing about who or what caused what, can't we discuss how WE can make it better?
For those of you that stated that you have children, but you don't care because you'll be dead, and it will be their problem.....you shouldn't be allowed to breed.
That's the sickest thing I've seen on this thread.

Gerritt

Ad Astra Per Aspera
(A rough road leads to the Stars)
We all know what we know, and everyone else knows we are wrong.
System Specifications in BIO
dark41 Mar 28, 2008, 10:03am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Global warming, fact or farce?
A_Pickle said:
It'd be nice if they, instead of making an electric sports car for $40,000... made a normal sedan for like $20,000.


Actually neither is a sports car. And since the cheapest cars in Australia go for around $20,000 and decent cars go for around $30,000, a $40,000 electric 5 seater (about the same body design as a Honda Civic) isn't a bad deal at all. Especially considering the lack of servicing required and the price to charge the batteries. For the record, I paid $55,000 for a Jeep Cherokee Limited in '95 in Australia. Most 4WDs now cost double what they'll ask for the electric car. :)

EX38-DS5
E8500@4.0GHz (445x9, 1.40v) TRUE Black
Corsair HX620W
2x2gb Kingston HyperX 9600
HIS IceQ4 HD4850
2X1TB F1s (RAID 0) XP Pro/Win7 Ult 64
Auzen X-Fi Prelude 7.1
Cambridge Soundworks 500w 5.1
G5, Antec 1200
dark41 Mar 28, 2008, 10:05am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Global warming, fact or farce?
Gerritt said:
For those of you that stated that you have children, but you don't care because you'll be dead, and it will be their problem.....you shouldn't be allowed to breed.
That's the sickest thing I've seen on this thread.

Gerritt


It was sarcasm. That's why it was followed with "On a serious note..."
But no worries, I'm done breeding. :)

EX38-DS5
E8500@4.0GHz (445x9, 1.40v) TRUE Black
Corsair HX620W
2x2gb Kingston HyperX 9600
HIS IceQ4 HD4850
2X1TB F1s (RAID 0) XP Pro/Win7 Ult 64
Auzen X-Fi Prelude 7.1
Cambridge Soundworks 500w 5.1
G5, Antec 1200
Gerritt Mar 28, 2008, 11:47pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Global warming, fact or farce?
Dark,
My bad for taking it the way I did, my appologies.

On another note, I seem to recall reading at one point or another in time, that there is a huge amount of CO2 frozen into the sludge under the Artic and Antartic Oceans, and that a warming trend could release this CO2 back into the atmosphere thus causing a hugely accelerated warming effect, leading to major storms at the minimum and a total global climate change at the worst. If this repository of greenhouse gas was to hit the atmosphere in a reletively short period of time the effects on the human population could be catistrophic in a very short period of time, and not over decades or generations, but within years, if not shorter time periods. I am concerned about the world that I'll leave to my children (as are you), and even though I think that there is a lot of scare tactics taking place, I can't find good science that would counteract these concerns.

The world is a changing place, that is a given. I don't care who or what caused or is causing it, I just want a livable world for my children.

Gerritt

Ad Astra Per Aspera
(A rough road leads to the Stars)
We all know what we know, and everyone else knows we are wrong.
System Specifications in BIO
richard parkinson Mar 29, 2008, 02:48pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Global warming, fact or farce?
Wait a minute!! We all learned in school that the campfires of aboriginal Americans caused the mile-thick glaciers that covered half of North America to melt away 12 thousand years ago! Think of all the coastal cities that perished!! I sometimes think that most of the really vocal people have beach property.
Yes, we are seeing a general warming trend, but records easily establish the warmest decade of the 20th century as the 1930's, so things have actually been cooling slightly since then, even as population has burgeoned in many areas. Careful science has identified warming and cooling trends that significantly affected vast areas long before the advent of industrialism. I would never deny that our energy usage creates heat, but science is not currently able to quantify it, nor the ability of the world's systems to adapt to it. I think a lot of work in that area is justified.
I have a relative (Harvard grad) who is not rational on this. I pity all who have shut their minds for political expediency, fear, white man's guilt, or whatever, especially those who believe that by paying an unknown company to plant trees and somehow guarantee their viability, that it will actually offset their usage of energy resources in some meaningful fashion.
I live in a small, highly-insulated house, drive a small car that gets 36+ on the road, also take public trans to work, and run a low-volt VIA home server with an 80+ power supply. I recycle everything possible at home and work. I invite Al Gore to do the same.

Suspended User Mar 29, 2008, 08:44pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Global warming, fact or farce?
Well farmers in NZ pay fart taxes for their cows.

WTF eh?


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