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  I can't stand it......... 
 
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Mark Jun 09, 2008, 08:06am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: I can't stand it.........
Supreet Virdi said:
Get X2 5000+ Black Edition.


Over the weekend I had already changed my mind to get that Supreet! Before I read the replies here!

And also, my old processor had 2x512kb cache and it still seemed smoother. :/

----------------------------------------------
- Intel Pentium G2020
- Asus 8800GT 512MB w/Glaciator Fansink
- Antec True 650w
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FordGT90Concept Jun 09, 2008, 08:57am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: I can't stand it.........
AMD processors have an exclusive cache which means less memory is needed to achieve the same effect. 512 KiB to AMD is not 512 KiB to Intel from a performance standpoint.

________________________
If I remember what I forgot, I have not forgotten it.
Mark Jun 09, 2008, 09:11am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: I can't stand it.........
Hm, I never knew that. Thanks Ford!

----------------------------------------------
- Intel Pentium G2020
- Asus 8800GT 512MB w/Glaciator Fansink
- Antec True 650w
Dublin_Gunner Jun 09, 2008, 09:44am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: I can't stand it.........
FordGT90Concept said:
AMD processors have an exclusive cache which means less memory is needed to achieve the same effect. 512 KiB to AMD is not 512 KiB to Intel from a performance standpoint.



Yep. Helps reduce silicon real estate needed, however, can also reduce the chances of a cache hit.

There are pro's and cons to both (exclusive & inclusive)

Lancool PC K62
Phenom II x3 @ 3.5Ghz
4GB DDR2-800
ASUS GTX570 DirectCU II
FordGT90Concept Jun 09, 2008, 10:47am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: I can't stand it.........
DublinGunner said:
There are pro's and cons to both (exclusive & inclusive)

No doubt. Inclusive caches just need a lot more memory because the same entry may exist more than once. As such, you can really rank Intel and AMD processors by the size of their L2:

AMD (exclusive) per core:
Budget: 256 KiB and lower
Mainstream: 512 KiB
Enthusiast: 1 MiB and higher

Intel (inclusive):
Budget: 2 MiB and lower
Mainstream: 4-6 MiB
Enthusiast: 8-12 MiB

Intel needs on the order of eight times the amount of L2 as AMD. Since on-die memory uses up a lot of wafer realestate, the amount of memory is in a direct relationship with the price it is sold at and power consumption. So...

Exclusive Pros
+Requires less physical memory
-Cheaper to produce
-Consumes less power

Exclusive Cons
+Complex fetchers
-Harder to scale in clock speed
-Harder to achieve MCM design

Inclusive is the exact opposite, really.

Intel has been inclusive since I can remember. AMD has been exclusive since at least K6 and probably K5 too. Ultimately, this means that AMD can produce chips cheaper than Intel but Intel's can be counted on to go that extra mile.

AMD really has a headache to deal with now because, perhaps their exclusive design is 80%+ of their problems. If they switch to inclusive like Intel, their clocks could scale much farther but that also means they are going to have spend more to make the processors. I highly doubt they will change because they haven't worked with inclusive in so long but...yeah. We wait, as usual.

________________________
If I remember what I forgot, I have not forgotten it.
Dublin_Gunner Jun 09, 2008, 11:02am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: I can't stand it.........
Yeah that pretty much sums it up.

One of the main advantages of exlusive cache design, is faster addressing to main memory if a cache miss occurs, as it takes fewer clock cycles to to check.

On the opposite side, for the very reason its faster when a miss occurs, inclusive vastly increases the chances of a hit occuring, negating the need to go to main memory.

All in all, both designs work, and to chose one over the other realy depends on the overall CPU design - inclusive caches tend to suit CPU's with longer instruction cache's, and vice versa.


Lancool PC K62
Phenom II x3 @ 3.5Ghz
4GB DDR2-800
ASUS GTX570 DirectCU II
Mark Jun 09, 2008, 11:04am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: I can't stand it.........
So would it be wise to go with the 5000 x2 BE over my current processor?

----------------------------------------------
- Intel Pentium G2020
- Asus 8800GT 512MB w/Glaciator Fansink
- Antec True 650w
FordGT90Concept Jun 09, 2008, 11:23am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: I can't stand it.........
I think the 5000+ would be more responsive than you're current processor but I doubt it would be much faster. Mind you, I've worked with a few of AMD's 65nm dual-core (4000+ Brisbane) processors and I recall being disappointed with responsiveness. The 5000+ isn't far off from the 4000+ so, I would be wary of purchasing one. A lower clocked Windsor is better than a higher clocked Brisbane.


If anything, I would recomend stepping up to 6### (4 MiB) or greater intel processor. They are extremely responsive and would not require replacing the motherboard. The Q6600 goes for just over $200.

________________________
If I remember what I forgot, I have not forgotten it.
Mark Jun 09, 2008, 11:35am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: I can't stand it.........
FordGT90Concept said:
I think the 5000+ would be more responsive than you're current processor but I doubt it would be much faster. Mind you, I've worked with a few of AMD's 65nm dual-core (4000+ Brisbane) processors and I recall being disappointed with responsiveness. The 5000+ isn't far off from the 4000+ so, I would be wary of purchasing one. A lower clocked Windsor is better than a higher clocked Brisbane.


If anything, I would recomend stepping up to 6### (4 MiB) or greater intel processor. They are extremely responsive and would not require replacing the motherboard. The Q6600 goes for just over $200.


Just the problem, the only upgrade I would be able to get with the intel rig is 2 gigs of ram. If I get the AMD rig, the whole thing would be covered by the price of my current system. So in essence I am spending absolutely no money. I really didn't want to be out of $200 on intel compared to $0 for AMD.

----------------------------------------------
- Intel Pentium G2020
- Asus 8800GT 512MB w/Glaciator Fansink
- Antec True 650w
Mark Jun 09, 2008, 04:08pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: I can't stand it.........
Well if I can pull this off with the selling of old parts, I am planning on purchasing a E7200 2.53ghz with 3mb cache.

Wise choice? Suggestions much appreciated! ;)

Can't beat $130

----------------------------------------------
- Intel Pentium G2020
- Asus 8800GT 512MB w/Glaciator Fansink
- Antec True 650w

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